Paul Izzo: From Being Booed to the Socceroos

Paul Izzo joins Kev Patel for a deep conversation on goalkeeping, resilience, family sacrifice, mental health, career setbacks and what it takes to perform when the pressure is highest. From his early years in Australia and youth international football to dealing with criticism, tough dressing rooms, fan abuse, panic attacks and career-defining moments, this is a raw and insightful look at the reality of professional football.

Paul also reflects on his breakthrough years, the challenges of moving overseas, the difference between Australian football and Europe, and the mentality shift that helped him stop chasing perfection and start delivering consistency. He shares lessons on pressure, composure, leadership, setbacks, performance psychology and the emotional significance of finally making his senior Socceroos debut.

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Transcript

Intro: Paul Izzo’ joins Beyond The Box

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Our guest today is a goalkeeper defined by resilience.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Mate, I was just getting booed every time my name came up, and you know, I've taken my first touch on the ball and just boozed. I'm just thinking.

SPEAKER_04 0:09

From representing Australia as a teenager to spending more than a decade fighting for his place at the very top of the game.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

I've had the worst year of my life. It's either I give up or I can give it another crack and um you know try actually prove everyone wrong.

SPEAKER_04 0:23

He's captain in Greece, taking the leap to Europe, and delivered big moments when the pressure was highest.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

I made that save, the penalty save, and I thought, okay, today's the day, like let's be the hero.

SPEAKER_04 0:35

And after 13 years of waiting, he finally earned his senior soccer roos debut.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

That kind of dream it was it was fading and fading and fading, and I just said to him straight out, I was like, listen, like let's just cut the bullshit. Like, am I playing or not?

SPEAKER_04 0:48

Welcome, Paul Izzo, to the Beyond the Box podcast. Welcome, mate. Thanks for having me. Pleasure to be here. Mate, it's a pleasure having you. It's your first time in the uh the OneGlove studio, right?

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Yeah, yeah. Nah, it's really nice here. So really happy to be here. Nice.

SPEAKER_04 1:01

I've got to start by asking you then. Obviously, in Australia, the the national sport is Aussie rules football, followed by probably rugby and then cricket. And we're sat here today because you're a goalkeeper playing football. So why football, given that the national sport isn't football in Oz?

SPEAKER_00 1:21

To be honest, um yeah, I think it kind of just fell in my lap, really. Um from a young age, I think I was just obsessed with the game. Um and yeah, like you said, there's so much competition in Australia, like with the different codes of uh of sport, whatever. And honestly, growing up, I played everything I think there was. Um, but yeah, I think football was the best fit for me. Um Aussie rules probably didn't have the the body for it, rugby definitely didn't have the body for it. Um so yeah, nah, um football's an easy decision for me, and yeah, obviously one that's paid off.

SPEAKER_04 2:03

And what was it about football that that was a big draw? Because obviously, Aussie rules, rugby, they're quite physical sports by nature, whereas football's probably less less contact-based. So, what was it about football that was a big draw to you and why goalkeeping as well? Because that's even more niche.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Yeah, to be honest, um, I think my parents just like um they obviously were really keen for me to be an active kid and you know, get out and socialise, whatever. And you know, I played football from eight years old, whatever, and honestly, I was lazy, like the laziest kid you probably could ever meet. And um, that's how goalkeeping kind of fell into my lap because I was just tired of it, like just sick of the running, and like I just didn't want to do it, you know. And I had one game and goals, and I was like, this is perfect, like parents are happy, I'm not running, like it's a win-win for me, you know? So um from then on it just stuck and like yeah, literally you you blink and I'm sitting here on this couch.

SPEAKER_04 3:05

Do you have like any early experiences then of like when you were a kid first playing playing in goal? And do you I feel like every goalie has a story of their first game in goal. Do you have any stories of when you had your first game and how it went?

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Uh I think off the top of my head, I don't know. Like, I do have like small kind of memories of like you know, when I first went into goal and that first kind of adrenaline rush I got, like when I made like a save. And I think to be honest, that's when I fell in love with the position because I was like, wow, like um, yeah, obviously it's completely different to to scoring a goal, but it was a different kind of satisfaction for me, almost being like a hero, you know, kind of like especially when you're young or your mates jumping around you saying, like, what a save and and all this stuff for getting around you. Um, so yeah, for me, I I really, really enjoyed that. And um yeah, I think for me that's like the the earliest memories that I have.

SPEAKER_04 4:00

See, I remember my first day playing in goal, and I saved two penalties in the game, and like you, it was that adrenaline rush that really drew me to the position. So, do you think goalkeepers are a little bit crazy because we chase the one feeling or that that outcome that people go to football to watch, which is goals?

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Yeah, for sure. Like, I think you're almost a bit of like an adrenaline junkie in some ways, I think. Like you always you get hooked on that feeling of you know being the savior, being the hero, even like being the villain, you know, like going from the whole stadium, like loving you to people hating you because maybe you've made a mistake in the last minute, you know, and like that pressure, you have to be crazy to to embrace that that pressure and and um you know that responsibility. And I think that's another thing that I really, really enjoy about the position is how um you know how intense and scrutinized you can you can be. Um, because basically, like it is a I don't know, a sport inside of a sport, you know, being a goalkeeper.

SPEAKER_04 5:09

So like off off air before we started this podcast, like not that I was like body language reading you or anything like that, but you are very, very relaxed by nature. And from my experience, anyway, whenever I've interviewed goalkeepers or work with goalkeepers, they do have this like very like calm presence about them, like almost like an aura, if you will. So, what's your thoughts about goalkeeping aura, the personality profile that you've got to have to be, you know, a top goalkeeper? What are your thoughts around that?

SPEAKER_00 5:40

Yeah, look, I think it comes with like maturity. When I was younger, I used to be very um, I think like an example would be like a Pickford kind of you know, style, like very loud and um uh charismatic and very dramatic as well at times. And I think through experience and you know, when you grow up, I think you learn to channel like your energy in in different ways, and you kind of you know, you just grow into yourself and see what works. And I think um, to be honest, I'm not the loudest goalkeeper, like I'm not a guy that's you know gonna kick the dressing room uh door down and start hammering people, but like it's still in the back pocket, you know. Like, I think you gotta have all types of aspects and uh personalities to your game as a goalkeeper because yeah, you are a pivotal point in the team where you have to be a cool head, you have to be a bit of a nutcase, you have to be mature, you have to be risk-taking, you have to be all sorts of things, you know. So you kind of have to be a bit of a like a chameleon, I guess, and adapt to all sorts of uh situations.

SPEAKER_04 6:58

Yeah, I I agree, mate. I I completely agree, and I do see that in a lot of younger goalkeepers, particularly. I think I think when we start out, we're always taught that we have to be the loudest person on the pitch, and we almost have to force this kind of extroverted personality on the group and be a leader in the dressing room. And I think as goalkeepers get older, they tend to mature through experience, through being in the dressing room and being in certain environments and being surrounded by influential characters in their career. And I can probably see that in you in the sense of how you are now. So, what did that refinement process look like? Going from that extroverted, loud, young goalkeeper who was raw and new to the game to the character that you are today and the way that you approach things now from a mindset point of view?

Why football won in Australia and how goalkeeping started

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Yeah, look, I think it just like it's just like life, really. Like you grow up, and like I said, you know, like when I look back in moments in my career, like I was probably using so much energy on being loud and and you know, trying to be such a big, massive um I don't know, character, like on the pitch when probably in the time I just needed to conserve myself a bit and keep level headed and you know things would have been better. Um so yeah, like like I said, like I take a bit from like especially when I was younger, like goalkeepers that I worked with. Um one of the best goalkeepers that I did was actually like mate, he wouldn't say boo, but like I think the way he and he was a captain of a team as well. And like usually as a captain, you're always like knocking on doors at the club, uh trying to get things sorted for the players and arguing with this person, that person, but mate, the way he captained was just purely by example, and like he was goalkeeper of the year, maybe like three out of four years, and you're just like that's how you do it. Like, you don't have to be this loud, uh crazy kind of chaotic leader when sometimes people see real leadership in you know, calmness.

SPEAKER_04 9:06

Did any of that get influenced by by your parents as well? Because you mentioned your parents were quite keen for you to be active and keen for you to be involved in sports. How much of a role did they play in shaping you as a human being?

SPEAKER_00 9:20

I think um, yeah, growing up, I think, you know, my dad obviously being Italian and my mum uh Greek, you know, they're the way they all brought up was kind of you know, like I know the morals that they they passed down to me just kind of just went through into football. Um they um yeah, obviously, you know, sacrificed so so much for me just to to live out my dream. And um yeah, I think what they did was, you know, while I was growing up along the way, they'll sprinkling here and there um, you know, bits of me, uh how they want me to be. And you know, I think you carry that onto the football pitch as well.

SPEAKER_04 10:08

What was uh what was one of the key values or morals that maybe mum and dad installed into you and that you took out onto the field and maybe carry now in your professional life?

SPEAKER_00 10:17

I think just yeah, respect's the biggest one. Um like even like in the change room when I was younger, like maybe as a young boy, it's kind of like speak unless you're spoken to, like, you know, it's you very much have your role in the team and like you've got to earn your stripes. And um, I think that kind of old school mentality, like maybe it's a little bit frowned upon these days. Um, I think it really helped me a lot because um, yeah, kind of like how my parents brought me up, also in football. I think respect um it's the first thing that you need to learn. Because once you respect the team, you respect the game, then you can really grow.

SPEAKER_04 11:01

I I do I completely agree with you on the respect side of things. I think when you see younger players now, not all of them, but there's definitely more than there used to be. I do think they miss out on that old school kind of football education where when you speak to somebody, you maintain eye contact. Yeah. When you shake someone's hand, it's a firm handshake with good eye contact. When you're at training, you you know, you pick up the cones and you pick up the balls and you make sure that you're the last person to go in and you make sure that the goals are pushed back. Was that a big part of your football education as a youth goalkeeper? Having those values and those actions and those behaviors instilled, or was it something that maybe you just observed and you picked up along the way?

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Yeah, I think the culture in the team at the time when I was young, I think it was very much like that, like you said. So it taught me a lot in terms of like, yeah, that respect factor and uh appreciation of like, you know, what the senior players in the group are actually trying to teach you. They're not trying to punish you or anything, they're just trying to teach you the process of of being a footballer. And I think like you look at it now, like, you know, players say, like, oh, I don't have to do that, I don't have to do this, whatever. And it's just like we kind of do. It's it's part of the process, you know. And while there are some things that I think are great that have changed now, like I do think that kind of old school mentality um, you know, it has taken a back step, and you know, it does affect uh, I think, you know, players, particularly from Australia, when they go overseas. Um, there's a lot of problems at the moment now with players going back to Australia because you know they're they struggle when they they first move over. So I think for me, having that kind of core um I don't know, core experience when I was younger really helped me now in my time since I've been overseas.

SPEAKER_04 12:49

I've got to ask you, I know we're we're a bit out the the chronology, but what are those struggles that that you see players go through when they do move back home? Because I I've I've obviously spoken to a number of people in in Oz who have been in the system and there is this expectation when they come over to Europe and they get exposed to, I'd say, uh a different culture and a different style of football, and then they go back to Oz and it's almost hard to meet those expectations again. So, what are the things that you see that the players struggle with when they are transitioning between Oz and Europe or maybe other parts of the world?

SPEAKER_00 13:21

I think it's just like being able to deal with the setbacks. Like in Oz, I think you're giving like a really, really big leash. Um, and you know, you can have a run of maybe two or three bad games, and you know, you they're gonna keep on playing you, keep playing it, which is yeah, it's great. But like the reality is like overseas, like one bad game, and there's question marks already, two bad games, and mate, you're replaced, like you're gonna earn your way back. And I think a lot of young players kind of struggle with that because in Oz it's such a closed league where you know if you've got a three-year contract, you're set, like they're not gonna pay you out and um like rip up your contract, like they want they're trying to save money, they don't have time to do that. Everyone's trying to save money. So um here it's a different story, you know, they'll loan you out to a another team and you're done. And like I think a lot of people can can struggle with that because yeah, it's it's a big pressure to perform. And um, I think for me, that's the the hardest thing uh for Australian footballers at the moment, particularly the the young ones that make the jump overseas so early um when they probably haven't had two or three consistent seasons, and and yeah, that's the the deciding factor, really.

SPEAKER_04 14:42

Yeah, the consistency piece is definitely something that younger players struggle with, and I think consistency is the name of the game, right? Especially in goalkeeping, where a manager probably wants you to be a six out of ten, a seven out of ten in most weeks. And we're gonna come onto that because obviously you've you've managed to go and achieve that in your career, and we'll we'll dive into that in a sec. But I gotta rewind you back then to to your childhood and your early days in goalkeeping. What was the point in in your youth where uh you thought there might be something here where you could turn this into a career? Yeah, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Um I think for sure, one of them would be like my purest football experience when I was young was the under 17s World Cup in Mexico. Um, especially obviously Mexico being the host, like football mag country. So our first group game we played, I think it was Ivory Coast, and it's under-17s, and we had, I think, like 15,000, 20,000 people watching us, and it was just incredible. And I was like, this could be it, like this is the dream. And you know, I think like from there, like obviously there's moments along the way where you like you think to yourself, wow, this could be week in, week out for me. Um obviously that's not exactly the reality, but yeah, there's been plenty of moments where I think uh I've thought to myself, like, yeah, I have to do this for as long as I can for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_04 16:15

Tell me about the Ivory Coast game, though, because I don't think many people will will know about that experience in your career, and it's such a poignant moment for you, and it's so important in your in your journey. So, under 17s World Cup, playing in Mexico, what what city were you playing in?

SPEAKER_01 16:30

If you remember, I'm testing you.

Youth football, World Cups and realising the game was serious

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Could have been Guadalajara. Wow, it's a big city, but yeah, massive city. Um and yeah, like I said, just football mad country. Like, I remember 16 years old at the time, and we rock up like to the airport, and obviously it being a World Cup, it's a big deal. Um, and we've got like like uh police escorts everywhere, like snipers on the top of our roofs and stuff. Like, hey, it was out of control, you know. And I was just thinking, like, like this is an under 17s World Cup. Like, imagine like the real, you know, the top dog thing. And like, yeah, it's another it's probably like a moment where like yeah, that love for the game kind of just took another jump because you realise how big football is and um, you know, uh how crazy it can it can make your life.

SPEAKER_04 17:22

Did that change your perception of football? And not in the sense of like if you could make it or not, because I think all pros have this innate ability, innate inner belief that they will go on and have a career, but did that change your perspective on football in the sense of how small you can feel in the grand scheme of things?

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Yeah, for sure. Like, like I said, like I was just like a 16-year-old going for a tournament, you know? Yeah, one of the biggest tournaments on in the world, and you rock up and you see all the people and fans that are like bombarding your hotel, and like you're an under-17s junior footballer. Like, like at the time, like, yeah, like me and all my mates were probably thinking, yeah, we're superstars, we're amazing, we're unbelievable. But like, it's just the the craziness of football in in some countries and how big of a deal it is. So um, yeah, it's definitely like when you look in, look at it, like look back at it like in perspective, I think, yeah, you just you realize how much of a small piece of the puzzle you were to like this massive thing that we play every week.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

I always say that you have to go through moments in your career. So there's always I call them significant life events, and you always have to go through significant life events in your career which slightly take you or really take you out of your comfort zone in order to grow and establish the type of goalkeeper that that you end up becoming. And you mentioned about playing in front of 20,000 people abroad in the in a full mad country that is Mexico. When you walked into that dressing room and you see the the shirt there and the gloves lined up, and it all starts to become real, what's going through your mind in that moment, knowing what you're walking into?

SPEAKER_00 19:07

To be honest, at that time I was just young and I was just I was just super excited. Like I didn't have this kind of um, you know, these deeper thoughts about what I was experiencing in you know, football at the time. I was just you know, a hundred miles an hour and think about it later, you know. So, like I said, like once you grow up and you mature and you know you actually start to use your brain, um yeah, then you you kind of you know um process like the the events and the moments that you experienced, and and yeah, that that for sure was one of them. How did you feel like you played in the game? I remember I made like a match-winning save at the end of the game, and this is when like Facebook just kicked off. I sound like I'm 40 years old here now. I didn't want to bring it up, and I remember like get back to the hotel, and like I've just got like 600 friend requests, like 300 Mexicans, and like all these people from Australia and everything. I was just like, oh my god, I'm a star, like I've made it, you know, and um, you know, still haven't heard it earned a dollar yet in football at the time, but you know, I was thinking to myself, yeah, I'm set for life. Um, but yeah, it was just like it was a crazy time, and you know, I was fortunate enough to experience another World Cup in Turkey later as in the under-20s. That was a bit different considering the um, I don't know, I think how you know the drama that was going on in Turkey at the time, um, but still another incredible experience and I think um a different kind of period in my life as well, in my career.

SPEAKER_04 20:48

And that, um just finally on this World Cup game, the on the 17s World Cup game. Were you aware of what was happening around you at that time in terms of the game? Because whenever I've spoken to goalkeepers in the past and they've had their, you know, their epiphany moment, that light bulb game where everything seems to come off, they're making saves, they're that their distribution is going to their intended target, they're playing out from the back, and things are just happening without them thinking about the game. Was that a similar experience for you in that match, that out-of-body experience?

SPEAKER_00 21:19

I don't know, really. I to be honest, I can't even remember it too much. But like, I think I've always just like, yeah, like you said, like you get into those zones sometimes in games where like everything's just flowing and you're not overthinking, it's just kind of just all happening, like you just it sounds a bit bad, but like not like you're going through the motions, but you're just in that flow. So um, yeah, for me, that was one of those times. Um, and yeah, look, it was it was a crazy time, but yeah, it was so long ago now.

SPEAKER_04 21:51

Besides the one game that I'm gonna bring up later, and I'm sure you probably already know which one that is. How many times has that flow? State been achieved in your career since that game because everyone always talks about searching for it, but I don't think you actually get there that often in your career, maybe a handful of time. So can you remember other games where you've got there?

SPEAKER_00 22:11

There's a few games that come to mind, but I think it's it's not something that you can just make it happen, you know. Like it just it kind of just falls in in your lap, really. Like I can't explain how it happens, but it's just like it can happen at any moment as well. Like it can happen in a big game or it can happen in a game where you're playing like a smaller side and out of nowhere it turns into a weldie. Um see, I think it just you just gotta let let it happen naturally, and you can't force yourself at all to ever try to be like, I need to be a 10 out of 10 every single game. Because like I think, like I was saying before, when I was younger, that's the goal I had in my head. Like, I need to be a match winner today, I need to be 10 out of 10, and you know, anything less is like I've done shit. Whereas really, like, as you grow up, you realize the best goalkeepers in the best teams in the world, they make one save a game and they're a six out of ten every game, and like that's where you need to be, and that's why they're the best in the world because they can always produce it. Um whereas when I was younger, I was always having those big inconsistent kind of jumps, and again, that's where you mature and realize okay, like some things are out of my hands, um, and I don't need to be that 10 out of 10 every single game. It's expectations, right? Yeah, like you put it on yourself, but sometimes like as well, you need to be realistic with yourself. Like, I know like people have like goal setting and stuff, and you know, there's the the crazy goal that you set for yourself, and then there's the kind of realistic goal that you set, and I think that that can be a really good value for anyone moving forward. Um because yeah, like at the end of the day, if you're not realistic with yourself, you're just gonna be chasing dreams that you know you're probably wasting time on.

SPEAKER_04 24:09

I think I think you make a great point about goal setting and expectations. So that goal that is really far out of reach, it's almost like the thing that pulls you, it's the thing that motivates you. But then you're absolutely right. With those more realistic ones, they're the ones that are achievable and keep you motivated on that journey. Yeah. So going into games when you're a younger goalkeeper, what would be some of the expectations and goals that you would set? So you mentioned about like 10 out of 10 performances and clean sheets. What did that look like on the grass? And how would you compare those things to what you now aim to achieve when you go into performance?

From promise to setbacks: Adelaide and senior football reality

SPEAKER_00 24:44

Yeah, I think um when I was younger, I was always in my head, I had that kind of feeling of like, all right, I need to be the hero today. Um I need to be the reason that that we win. Um and like when I finish the game, everyone needs to say, like, oh, he was good today. Like he was he was the he's the best goalkeeper in the league. Where reality is like like it's not the case probably, I don't know, in however many games you play, like I think you have to be, you have to accept that like you're gonna cop goals, but like also maybe the moment's not the goal that you conceded, but it's the next shot after the goal. Like you're down, even if you're down 2-0, um, if I make a big save at 2-0 down and we win the game 3-2, people don't look at that moment, but like I know now deep down, like if I didn't make that save, it's 3-0 games done. Whereas when I was younger, I think if I conceded one, I'm chasing the next moment and I'm chasing, I'm chasing, I'm putting more and more pressure on myself. Whereas, yeah, now it's kind of like, all right, what's the next moment? How can I impact that? Is it gonna help the team going forward? Like, yeah, I think that's the the greatest kind of um progress I've made in my career.

SPEAKER_04 26:06

See, I love that, and I can relate to that so much. So I don't like talking about it, but I've played in this game when I was at university, it was in front of a couple of thousand people, one of the biggest games that that I've played in as a goalkeeper. And the manager said to me before the game, oh, clean sheet today. I thought, you bastard. Cursed me. So I've gone out onto the pitch, and it's on, I think it's on YouTube somewhere. I'll have to find it. But first minute of the game, thousands of people in the stadium, all my mates are there, my family's driven up from from London to Nottingham. First 30 seconds of the game, winger's got it on the right hand side, he's chopped inside, he's just bent it, top bin, it's gone off the stanch, and I've gone, fuck sake. That's not how it's supposed to go. Yeah, literally. And looking back on it now, after all the studying and stuff and the work that I've done, it's that gap between the expectation and the goals that you set for yourself versus the reality that you live through. And it made me realise in goalkeeping, there is so much that we have no control over. But I think when we're younger, we build this narrative in our minds of being the superhero and keeping that clean sheet and making that world he save. And I think that comes from the people around us of over-relying on goalkeepers. I don't know what your thoughts are on that.

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SPEAKER_00 27:18

Yeah, I think there's um there's a I don't know, it depends. Like, I think there's a perception that, like, you know, your goalkeeper, like obviously he has to be your match winner, but like I think a goalkeeper, like, he dictates the way a team plays so much more now. Like, if you're playing out or you know, you're playing a lot more direct, like it has a massive influence on the team now. Like, it's not um like how it used to be where you're just the guy in goals with the gloves on, save the ball, and that's it, that's your job. Now there's so many more jobs where you know managers are looking for you to create goals, they're looking for you to build up from the back to to create opportunities, and you know, it can be the difference if you play or not compared to the the guy that's chasing your position. Um so yeah, there's there's so much more to goalkeeping now than than what there used to be. And yeah, again, it's another reason why I think I love the position because you know um the responsibility that's on your shoulders, it's it's it's a great like pleasure to deal with.

SPEAKER_03 28:27

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SPEAKER_04 28:56

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SPEAKER_03 29:01

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SPEAKER_04 29:10

And I know goalkeeping's evolved over the years, and I I do want to take you back to your time at Adelaide because that's obviously where you had your breakthrough in terms of youth team football. And then I think it was 2011, 2012 you made your debut, Central Coast Mariners? Yes, yeah, yeah. How did those early youth experiences then, playing in the under-17s World Cup, being in and around the first team at Adelaide, going through that youth team education, how did all those moments prepare you for your debut? What's the story behind that moment?

SPEAKER_00 29:39

It was pretty crazy to be honest, because you know, like I said, through that junior like national team path, like life was really cruzy for me. Like everything was just working. You know, I'd uh I moved away from home. Um, I was at like the Institute of Sport, which is like where they basically they trained the the under-17th. Um and yeah, mate, got offered a contract straight away to go to Adelaide, and I was like, no-brainer, like I'm going back home. And then that's when, you know, life kind of chucked its first kind of spanner at me, where I went from, you know, being the guy that's playing every single weekend with like, you know, my under-17 squad, and now like I'm at the bottom of the food chain. Like I'm not even making the squads, you know, like I'm just a 17-year-old and I'm another number on the list. And um, that was hard for me because usually like through my whole career, it was just like, all right, wake up, train, go play on the weekend. Now I'm not playing anymore. And I was kind of missing something where I feel like I lost like that kind of importance. So um it was probably like I don't know, maybe a year of just training, training, training. And um, the goalkeeper, he actually got caught up to the national team, and then um uh yeah, there was this big talk in the media, like uh, who are they gonna pick? Me or the uh the other young goalkeeper. And I was just thinking, well, this is it, really, like it's 50-50 now. I've got to get something, and um, yeah, fortunately enough, um, the manager went with me, and yeah, that was another moment where you know I was thrown into senior football where I know like kind of key moments again that pop up into my head, it was like, you know, playing against you know, really senior kind of strikers, like my first, obviously it was my first game, so they'll they'll wanted to like really test me, um, you know, see if I'd buckle and and you know, drop a howler or something. So like and in corners, like you know, to have all these older players just coming up to me, like peeling my gloves and you know, standing on my toes and saying, like, before the cross is coming in and saying, like, oh, you got butterfingers, mate, don't drop this one, you know. And like, yeah, it was it was really cool because there was a moment where I was like, like, I'd love to I want to deal with this every single week. And um, yeah, had a not bad game, um, but that's where I got that first kind of taste of senior football, and um yeah, it was a long time between drinks, I think, um, from that game and until my next few games where I think I didn't play another game for like a year. So um that's obviously where I made the move to go to another club, which is a whole nother story of another moment where life throws a spanner at you. Um, and yeah, it's just part of growing up. Like, I think um, yeah, I don't know where I'm going with this now, but I'm enjoying it.

SPEAKER_04 32:55

Yeah, like I wanted to ask you though, like, so in that debut, I think a debut game for most goalkeepers, even though we try not to play it up too much in our minds, it is a pivotal moment because it gives you that first indication of, or at least some indication of whether you're cut out for this. And when you're standing in the goal and you've got people peeling your gloves and telling you not to drop it, how do you deal with those demons in your head? How do you deal with the negative thoughts? How do you deal with the self-criticism or the outside voices in those moments to make sure that you're able to deliver your job?

Central Coast struggles, criticism and mental toughness

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Yeah, I think um I think I've been I I guess it's a bit of a blessing and a curse, but like I'm very, very stubborn. So like if I have an a thought in my head that like you know, it's like a belief, like I'll believe it until the end, you know, and I think in that moment, like while, you know, obviously there was mind games and whatever going on in the game, like I knew deep down, like it's just part of the job, and I know I'm playing because like I'm capable of playing. And like yeah, I think you know, a lot of people, you know, they have their positives and negatives, but like I think the biggest one is like the mental side of the game where I think you know, some people can lack and in goalkeeping, I think that's probably like 70% of your game. Like, like I've said it so many times already, but like when you grow up, you realize the physical side of the game is so small when in the grand scheme of things, if you're mentally not on, um, you're gonna struggle no matter what, no matter how tall and strong and quick your reflexes and and you know how good you are with your feet, like mentally you have to be there or else you're you're worthless.

SPEAKER_04 34:46

I I agree, and I'd actually I'd actually go further than that and say it's probably 90% of the game. I mean, obviously the numbers can vary from person to person, right? Let's not get technical with the numbers, but I if you put two goalkeepers side by side, I genuinely think as a pro, you could probably do the same things as as each other. But I think if you put them into an arena with 50 or 60,000 people, I think that's where the levels then start get to different like differentiated by. So knowing what you know now about the importance of psychology, the importance of mindset when you're a goalkeeper playing at at the top of the sport in any country, did you work on that side of the game after your early experiences? And was that work maybe working with somebody, or was it a case of learning it through experience, being in that training environment and working with those senior goalies?

SPEAKER_00 35:40

Yeah, to be honest, I wish I worked with someone, you know, when I was younger to understand the mental side of like just sport in general. Um but for me, I think it was definitely through experience. Um, you know, obviously, like for example, when I moved to the Central Coast, um, it was an unbelievable opportunity for me at I think I was, I don't know, 20, 21 or something to play regular first team football. But mentally I wasn't prepared for the I think the the pressure and the I don't know the the other side of football where you know if things aren't going well, fans turn on you. Um and like it can start to like that team at the time was so bad that you know fans were actually like stopping me like when I was out in the street, um just giving me like shit, you know. And I was really still at the time I was I was like 21 or something, so I'm still basic I I'm a baby in terms of being a goalkeeper, but like you know, I was thrown in the deep end and expected just to to swim, you know. Where I think um, you know, probably I needed a bit more protection in terms of like um on the pitch because a team was absolutely trash. And who do you look at first when the team's always losing? You go to the goalkeeper. So um, yeah, it was extremely difficult time for me. Um but again, it's a key moment in my career where you know, starting the next season, they signed a senior goalkeeper, and I was like, well, I've had the worst year of my life. It's either I give up, you know, I'll go back to to Adelaide and I'll play like local league somewhere and just cruise by, or I can give it another crack and um you know try actually prove everyone wrong. And I think that was really important that I worked that out on my on my own. Um and the penny kind of dropped for me that I had to do extra stuff, I had to be more professional, I had to to to go beyond just being a footballer. Like I went from a five hours a day to it's 24 hours now. Um and that that helped me grow a lot um to where that next season I won player of the year, and it's like yeah, that mental side where I could have given up, um thrown it away, and I definitely wouldn't be sitting here right now. Um but yeah, that's um life, you know. Um can you deal with the the tough moments and the even tougher moments as well?

SPEAKER_04 38:34

That's interesting. And it's actually really beautiful that you've gone on that what we call a hero's journey. So I think it was the season that you season before Central Coast, you you're at Adelaide, you made your debut, then you went a whole season without playing a game, right? Then all of a sudden you've been thrown in into the deep end at Central Coast. You mentioned about a team that was inherently failing. I think you won, was it three or four games that entire year? Yeah, we were actually looking it up before. I think it's three or four. You don't want to look at it. And then you mentioned about being in the street and getting stopped. So how did you how did you go from a place of not playing any games to then going into a failing team? How did you cope with that? Because that must have been bloody hard.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Yeah, look, like mate, I was I was going into games where you know even before the game, they they're announcing the lineup and they say number whatever, da da da da, and the crowd usually goes, yeah. And mate, I was just getting booed every time my name came up. We get into the games, game starts playing out, and you know, taking my first touch on the ball and just booze. And I'm just thinking, fuck, like, I can I understand, like, you know, I haven't been great, but like I want to do well, you know, and I'm so young, like, like I just this is my dream, and I'm just getting shit on every week, so yeah. Look, it was it was extremely, extremely tough, and like outside of football, I wasn't doing the greatest things either to help my case, but like yeah, it's it's growing up and and realizing you know there's a mental toughness that you need to have, and I think without that moment in my career, I probably don't realize the strength that I I have right now, you know, and I'll do it over again a hundred times. All the abuse and all the taunting, and I had family come to my games and like my family was getting abused in the stands and stuff. I was just like serious, yeah. It was it's it was horrible. Um but like again, I don't hold no grudges to fans like that. Like, mate, they earn their money to the to to support the club and whatever, and you know, they're they have every right to ball player if they want a ball player, like, but yeah, there's a there's another side of it where as a not just as an athlete but as a person, like you want to do well, like, and I think that's what hurts the most is because things aren't working well, and yeah, I think what saved me was obviously got through the season, and then I had a new challenge that they brought in a senior goalkeeper, and um yeah, that's when you start setting the goals like all right, I'm gonna beat this guy and I'm gonna get my spot back and go back into it.

SPEAKER_04 41:24

I think we have to go through challenges in life and challenges in goalkeeping to grow. And I don't think it's until you go through a form of adversity, whether it be a loss of form or rightly or wrongly being abused, walking in the street, being called God knows what. Like what just on that, I have to ask you about that story, right? I have to ask you what happened when you got pulled in the street? What happened?

How adversity reshaped his mindset and professionalism

SPEAKER_00 41:47

No, nothing, it's just like because it was it's a it was a really, really like really nice like um kind of town where I live. It was all on like along the beach, so you'd always just go for a walk down the beach and you're walking past like um the main kind of strip, and it's not like people just go directly up to you, like you just hear it like as you pass by, but like someone's just like, oh, here's that shit. Like, I'm not gonna say it, but like, like actually, you gave me the license before. It was like just that shit walking down the street now, you know. And you just you don't give it energy, but like when you hear it, you know it's directed to you. Um, so yeah, it it will it wore you down a lot.

SPEAKER_04 42:30

Yeah, I find that mad about football. I find it mad how someone will say something behind your back or they'll say it on social media or they'll say it in passing, but nine times out of ten, they'd very rarely ever say it to your face.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:43

And I think that's a side of football that a lot of people don't get to see is the abuse that players deal with and how much it impacts you because uh I haven't been through it that much in my career, but I feel like you've probably dealt with that quite a lot, and it seems like you've accepted it, but you you're also very, very good at processing it but also parking it. How do you get to that place? Because I think in goalkeeping, we're always scrutinized, we're always criticized, and a lot of younger goalkeepers, even senior goalkeepers, struggle to deal with that criticism because we all want to be liked. How do you deal with that? What's your process?

SPEAKER_00 43:21

Um, I think you just gotta accept that like everyone, everyone on earth is allowed an opinion, and this is in football and outside of football, we're all gonna agree and disagree on things. And the quicker people realize that you know your opinion about something isn't the you know the deciding factor on all matters in the world, like you're gonna get through life pretty easy. Like, if you disagree with someone on something, who cares? Like, it's not gonna change my day. Like You know, I'm sure there's things that you think and that I think that are completely different, but like I'm not gonna go to back to my hotel tonight and be like, I can't believe this fucking guy. He doesn't agree with me, you know. But it's life, like everyone's different. And yeah, I came to terms with that pretty quickly. Obviously, I learned the harsh way. Um, but yeah, like I said before, um learning it that way, I think was the best way for me because you know there was no sugar coating and it was just direct, straight to the point, and the hardest lessons are the best lessons, I think, in life. I love that. Hardest lessons are the best lessons.

SPEAKER_04 44:37

I think I'm gonna steal that one. Yeah, I like that tattoo it. Paul is a special. So Central Coast going into your second season, you mentioned that you realized that first season you probably didn't give the best of yourself and the best version of yourself. What was the turning point? What was that light bulb moment, and what did you change to get the high performance results that you then achieved?

SPEAKER_00 45:04

Um to be honest, the new coach that came in, he was actually um he was a coach of mine in the other 20s, and we butt heads a lot. Like he said some things to me that if I said on camera, like jobs could be lost. So um, look, when he came, I thought, all right, here's another test, you know, like he's just gonna bin me and I'm done. But then, yeah, like I said, like I just put everything to the side. I said, All right, I'm just gonna give 110% every day and let's see what happens, you know. And eventually he puts me back in a team and you know, the rest is history. Um, you know, have a great season, whatever, and win player of the year, and yeah, I I managed to get through. Like, it's just how it really went.

SPEAKER_04 45:52

It's beautiful that you say that, actually, because the number of conversations I've had with younger goalkeepers and they say, Oh, the manager's pissing me off, like he's giving me really negative feedback, he's coming after me in the dressing room, and they go into that victim mentality. I've always believed in spinning that and saying, Well, if the manager's criticizing you and giving you feedback, do you think he'd waste his breath on someone that he didn't care about?

SPEAKER_00 46:16

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think to an extent, like obviously it depends what he's saying, but like also like there's the mental side, you know, it's not just on the pitch, it's outside the pitch as well. Like criticism, um, you know, negativity, like, can you deal with that? And like I said, you have to accept that there's the world isn't like it's gonna be uh, you know, sunshine and rainbows for your whole career. Like, there's gonna be really, really dark times and really bad times. Like, but can you can you get through it? And like once you do, mate, you're you take another step up.

SPEAKER_04 46:58

Was that the hardest period in your career, Central Coast? Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:04

Yeah, probably. Um I did have a tough time in Melbourne as well, but that was more, I think, like a bit more personal. Um where that was dealing with another side of I think uh I don't know, life challenges that can get thrown at you. To be honest, I'm more proud of the Melbourne one because uh it was quite a um different experience for me than than uh I ever thought I'd experience where you know Central Coast was quite um you know football related and you know um you know just football really, where Melbourne was a bit more mental for myself um and you know it was affecting my life as well instead of just football. Um but yeah, like I said, um Are you able to share what? Yeah, I can dive into it a little bit. Um I had um how do I say this? Like I was having I was going through like kind of like a few panic attack kind of episodes and stuff where um I've actually never really shared this to be honest, but um yeah, um I was struggling a lot and it was affecting me so much that like you know I was I really didn't want to be around people and didn't want to go into training and mate, I was just I was absolutely like just not miserable, but like just always on edge, like something's gonna happen, like something's coming, something's around the corner, and you know, something's gonna happen. Um really fortunate that um our players union um in Australia they they looked after me really, really well, and I was able to manage it with them throughout the season. And funny enough, you know, it was probably one of the best seasons of my career. Um so yeah, that's another thing where like yeah, there's football challenges, then there's there's there's life challenges as well. Um and yeah, that's probably my proudest um achievement, I think.

Mental health, panic attacks and finding stability

SPEAKER_04 49:07

Thank thank you for sharing that. And I think vulnerability from yourself, vulnerability from from us helps other people because it shows other people that actually, even though we wear this coat of armour in in the football world, there is a deeper human being behind what we do. And when you're speaking there, it reminded me of of this situation that I went through when I was 14, 13, or 14 years old when I was at Wickham. And my dad had some health complications at the time, and he drove me to training and I knew something was wrong, but he never told me what happened. So I got into training and I got out of the car and I went into the training ground. And the first team goalie, his name's Nicky Ball, retired now, but became a football manager. He said, like, you don't look yourself today. Is everything all right? I was like, Yeah, I'm fine, I'm fine. You know what you do. You just say to everyone that you're fine. Mask it. Yeah, you mask it. And went out to training. I had a honking session, like I was shocking, miles off it. And even the coach said, Is everything all right? And I got so pissed off to the point where I ended up booting a ball at the coach, and he like this is so out of character for me as well. And he ended up sending me to do laps of the pitch. And I remember just running around the pitch crying, like I was broken because like my dad was everything, he's still with us, thankfully. But said that like he'd pass where and then the first thing goalie said, like, right, come and have a chat with me, what's wrong? And then the goalie coach pulled me in and said, Right, what's going on? Something's not right. And I told them, I just broke down in front of them. But it made me realize now, even in my line of work, that what someone presents to you isn't always the full story, there's always something in the background, and there's not always a problem, but sometimes people have things going on in their lives that we don't see. And then when you add fan pressure, when you add expectation, when you add a manager needing results from you, and you have to pick yourself up despite what life presents to you, that must be very hard. So when you're when you were going through that situation, how did you pick yourself up despite what you were going through?

SPEAKER_00 51:13

Yeah, I think um for me, like I'm definitely like not the person that ever, like anyone that knows me will tell you the same thing, like not talking about feelings, I'm like kind of a bit old school in that way where like you know, concrete face and just I'll deal with it on my own, you know? And um for me the key was just to have like you know, I didn't have to dramatize it and say I need help from here, there, then everywhere. Like I had my small kind of circle of maybe I don't know, three, four people, and that's all I needed. Like if things started, you know, taking a turn, I know I knew where to go, what to do, and what my steps were. Um but even like I don't know, it's just like each day was yeah, I guess a bit of a challenge, but like come the end of the day, when you get through it, you're like now it feels like a reward, like alright, I've achieved it. So like you just keep chasing that kind of feeling day by day. Um, and yeah, um like I said, like I had my small group that that really kind of helped me through whenever I needed it, and um yeah, kind of another pivotal moment in my life where I realized I had this even you know more kind of inner strength that I I never knew that I'd be capable of of um of achieving, you know. Um I remember like the first game of the season, I was coming back from a broken hand and I was kind of in the peak of like all my kind of mental dramas, bullshit, whatever. And I remember it was like uh it was a big game for us, it was actually a Sydney derby. So we had you know heaps of away fans coming and obviously a big game in Australia. And um the captains before the game, he goes to me, he's like, Alright, I'm gonna start you. Um we're gonna kick off and you're gonna start on like on their end, like in front of their um like ultras. And I was just thinking at the time, like, fuck man, my heart's going a thousand beats a minute right now. Like, I don't need this shit. And then, you know, like obviously, yeah, getting that kind of panicky feeling. I'm thinking, here we go, shit's about to kick off. And then, like, you know, I finally like I get into the goal, and like people throwing abuse at me, and I'm just like, this is where I'm supposed to be. Like, all of a sudden, like all that pressure just like released, and I was like, Okay, I can do this, and then you know, from that moment forward, every week had its little challenge, but like, yeah, once you get through it, like it's just another kind of shield of armor that you put on to on yourself until eventually where like you feel like you're bulletproof mentally because all the scenarios that run through your head that you think, you know, oh, this is it, this is the end line now, here we go. You get through it and you're like, oh, okay, um, this isn't too bad then. So you just you're just building strength and strength each and every week, and that's kind of how I was doing it.

SPEAKER_04 54:22

The quote pressure can either burst pipes or breaks diamond or makes diamonds comes to mind when I think of that situation. So you've been put in the pressure cooker, coming back from an injury, which a hand injury might, which that's a fucking hard thing to come back from. But the way that you cope with it was the abuse, the pressure, the fans behind your goal. That's something that uplifted you rather than broke you. Why do you think that is?

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Yeah, I don't know. Like, I just feel like it was a moment where like I think my mind was just like, this is your job, like this is where you're supposed to be, this is why you do this, you love this, like this is why you love your position, like you're in the thick of it. Like, like, and I think for me, like the best way to get through these things is not kind of like um I don't want to make it sound bad, like babying your way through it. Like, sometimes you just need to be thrown into hell. And like for me, that was my you know, bit of chaos. And if you can get through it, like may, it's leaps and bounds from there, like where you go. So for me, that was massive.

SPEAKER_04 55:38

Yeah, yeah. I I remember this Tim Grover quote, he says, uh see, I'm getting all motivational quote you now. You see what you're doing to me. People people want the flame, but they don't want to walk through the fire.

SPEAKER_00 55:49

Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's corny as it sounds, like it's you hit the nail on the head, really. Like, that's how it is.

SPEAKER_04 55:58

Before you go to Melbourne, you um you spent time in Greece, and I want to just rewind back to that because I think moving clubs as a goalkeeper, I think is very, very challenging because not only do you have to adapt to a new style of play, a new dressing room, but you also have to adapt to a new culture. And we spoke uh uh earlier about how the holistic side of goalkeeping and the mentality side of it can be thrown out of balance because of that. You moved along with uh your your previous manager at I believe it's Adelaide, sorry, at Central Coast. Um, you've moved into a new dressing room. What was what was that experience like changing dressing rooms and and going to a new culture?

SPEAKER_00 56:39

Yeah, um for me, I think um while maybe for my career wasn't the most flashy and you know, probably the the wisest move for me, it was it was at a time when you know COVID was kind of at its peak and um I was in a bit of a stale place in my career where each season was kind of a bit on repeat for me, where um I wouldn't say I was bored, but like like I said, yeah, it's just it was getting a bit repetitive and I needed a change and I definitely got that going to to Greece. Um and yeah, it was an interesting project at the time. It was an Australian owner, um, and obviously he was signing a lot of Australians to make it you know very comfortable for players to go there, even with your Greek heritage as well, right? Yeah, yeah. So that's another reason as well. Like I think um I was able to, you know, to adjust so easily there because you know it wasn't a culture shock for me at all. Um, if anything, I I loved it even more. Um, that type of lifestyle.

SPEAKER_04 57:44

But um lots of Mediterranean salads, yeah, plenty of beach. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:49

But um, yeah, it was just a it's it was a great experience to experience like to see that side of football in Greece where it's extremely passionate. Like I know you were saying before you guys went to Turkey as well, um, previously, and very similar to there, where everything's like dramatized by a thousand percent, you know. Um and yeah, plenty of plenty of crazy stories of my time in Greece. Um, but yeah, probably stayed there a year too long for myself, but like I said, you know, it's all part of the journey, and you know, it's still something I'm proud of that I that I completed.

SPEAKER_04 58:26

Why'd you say that? Stayed there too long, a year.

SPEAKER_00 58:29

Oh, it's just yeah, look, it was just obviously at the time when I went there was a second division club. Um, and obviously the Aussie owner that came in, you know, he bought the club to put him in the first division. And look, on paper, everything sounded amazing, you know, until if you do a little Google search for his name, you'll you'll see that his money got tied up in a a bit of a fraud. Um allegedly before anyone comes and drops a letter in my box. Um, but yeah, um, so that kind of shit at the fan there, as it would in Greece. Um, so yeah, for me to stay an extra year was probably too long. I mean, particularly in a footballer's career, you know, a year's a long time, and you know, a year it's almost like like a decade in the average person's kind of life outside of a sport. So um, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:24

Yeah.

Greece, chaos abroad and staying grounded in football

SPEAKER_04 59:25

It's it's hard, isn't it? I suppose, when when you've got all the noise around you in a in a circumstance like that, and this will be the final question on um Xanthi. How do you keep yourself centered when there's chaos around you? Because I feel like there'll be other goalkeepers that listen to this podcast or watch this podcast who will go through something similar in their careers. How do you keep yourself centered when there's chaos around you?

SPEAKER_00 59:48

Yeah, look, I mean, to be honest, it was it was actually a point in my career where I was basically working for free because the last six, maybe eight months of my contract, um, the owner poured out all his money, everything got frozen, so we weren't getting paid. So I was basically playing football for free. And probably there's a little lesson there that kind of taught me, you know, about the real reasons why you play football. Like, is it for money? Like, yeah, for sure, no doubt. Um, but then you know, there's a side where alright, I've got to be professional now, I have to to stay fit, I have to keep playing games, and I'm not getting paid for it. So, like, you know, it's another challenge in itself, but I think that's you know, the love I have for the game so much where that period where alright, I'm gonna have to get through this next six months, obviously not being paid, but um, yeah, I have to stay professional and keep doing my job. As it's funny saying job because I'm not getting paid for it, but yeah, like it's just another kind of experience that I had to go through.

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SPEAKER_00 1:02:05

Yeah, there's no other way to explain it. That was my night. Um, yeah, I don't know. Like I said, there was that challenge that I was dealing with outside of football that season, and I feel like everything came kind of to the point of the arrow that night where it just shot off, and it was like all that hard work and that doubt and the struggle and all the other crap that follows it mentally. Um that was the night where it all kind of kind of ticked off and said, you done it, like you got through it, like you're bulletproof now.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:49

So the game that I'm referring to and that we're talking about is 5th of May 2024. Melbourne, what's the Melbourne Derby? What was that experience like playing in a Melbourne derby? Because I I actually had two friends who are at the game. They went together and sent me some photos, and they were worse aware in those photos, I should say. Um, a few beers were definitely consumed. Um, but I feel like that game has such a an aura around it and such hype around it, it's probably the closest thing you get in us to a big derby. What was it like to go through what you'd been through that season in terms of the panic attacks and and the challenges that you faced off the pitch, and then to have to step into a game of that magnitude and produce the performance that you produced, which uh I would argue went viral around the world. Like I saw that before the lads had even told me about the game. So, what was it like playing in that game given everything that you'd been through?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:50

Yeah, we kind of you mentioned it before, like it's not something that you can just flick the switch and say, you know, um I'm gonna be unbelievable today. Like it just it just happens, you know, and maybe for other reasons uh it happened for me that night because yeah, I don't know, like it was just meant to be. But um it was honestly, it was uh it was one of the most the craziest nights of my career, and yeah, when I look at the grand scheme of things, like you know, the whole year that built up just to that night, I think um, yeah, a lot of people, if they look at this picture, they'll see like that moment, but I see months and months of you know, struggle, happiness, sadness, um, doubt, all sorts of emotions and and feelings um all kind of bubbled in from months and months of work into just yeah, 90, 120 minutes.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:56

And I think in sport, we see an outcome. We see you scoring a penalty and then making ridiculous saves in the penalty shootout. We see the nine saves that you made through the game, we see the uh almost I would argue nonchalance in the way that you played that game. I I remember watching the highlights and and seeing your body language around that penalty shootout, and you look so calm and so controlled and so poised, but people don't ever see the work on the training pitch, and then behind that the struggles that you face in your day-to-day life. How do you uh deliver an outcome like that whilst there's uncontrollable chaos everywhere else, everywhere else? How do you get to that place where you can deliver that type of performance and paint that picture for people?

Melbourne Derby heroics and thriving under pressure

SPEAKER_00 1:05:49

I think that this is a perfect example. Um my time at Adelaide, we had a similar game. Uh I think it was another crazy game. I think we came back from like 2 0 down. To 3-3 in the last minute, and we went to penalties. And that shootout, I actually saved I don't remember if it was three maybe in the shootout, but like mate, I was going crazy. I make a save, I pick the ball up, punch it. Like my emotions are flying. Like, like I said before, young, dumb, just wasting energy. And then, you know, fast forward however many years, I'm in the same situation again. And I just thought to myself, like, I've learned a lot in that time. A lot of my energy's been spent off the pitch into other things that I need to deal with. And um, yeah, like you said, I was very nonchalant and very calm and relaxed. And I think that's just how I want it to be because I knew that, you know, that crazy and um, you know, hyper energy might be the difference between making me, you know, dive the wrong way for a penalty when I if I was a bit calmer, I'd say, you know, I probably will go this way. And I think that's what in the end kind of helped me. And yeah, that calm, kind of relaxed kind of nature that I had. I think that even I think it's even scarier. Like, as a striker, when you see a goalkeeper is like, he doesn't care if he's making saves right now. Like, he this is his bread and butter. Like, for me, if I see a goalkeeper like really over-celebrating, it's like, is he insecure? Like, maybe he's you know, he didn't expect himself to save it. Whereas if I'm a striker and I see that like this keeper's saved three penalties and he hasn't celebrated once, like, I'm shitting my pants. I'm thinking this guy's a freak. And now he's gonna go take one himself. So yeah, I think, like I said, it's the perfect kind of uh example where on one hand at Adelaide I was this young, you know, chaotic kind of style. And then, you know, over the years I'm mature, I go through lessons and and learn, and you know, I think I reap the rewards at night.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:12

I remember watching the highlights, and we actually watched them before before you popped into the studio to give ourselves a refresher. And I said to Joe, I said, he looks so calm, he looks so chilled out like almost like you were in like a trance.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:25

And there's this there's this thing in psychology, but a pro a pro that I work with talked about framing it differently, and he said to me, When you go surfing and you get too high on the wave, you always end up crashing out, and when you get too low, the wave topples on top of you. So it's about finding that sweet spot right in the middle of being in control of your emotions, but also being able to ride the highs and the lows that the game presents you with. And you mentioned about how experience led you to that point. Do you think all the uh experiences that you had in the game, all the trials and tribulations, all the high and low moments led to success in that moment?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:06

Yeah, without a doubt. I think um you know that year obviously was probably say physically as well, the most challenging kind of um test in my life. And um I think um, you know, being able to get through that and enter that kind of, like you said, state of trance where yeah, like in the game, obviously I was making big saves and you know, celebrate those moments, like I would celebrate, but then bring yourself back down to earth. What's next? That moment's done now, it's over. You gotta be the hero for the next moment, maybe. And um that came through the experiences that I had in my career where instead of chasing the next moment, I just let it happen. And if it happened, it happened. If it didn't, it didn't. And that night, everything was happening for me.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:04

Um everything happened in that game, right? Like you made you made nine saves. I remember there was a corner that came over, it got flicked on and got headed back across you right after you made a ridiculous world save. Exactly. Like you're up here and then you're down here, back down to earth, and I think there was a sending off after that as well. Yeah, like when you're in a game where there's chaos and people are getting sent off, does that change your expectations in terms of your role in games like that?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:30

Yeah, I think um that's a moment where I had to accept, I guess, the responsibility of like, am I gonna be the hero today, or am I just gonna kind of you know see what happens and like you know, just kind of get through the game where yeah, maybe you do have to challenge yourself a bit to to step up, and um as soon as we got the red card, I was thinking, alright, I'm gonna have to put ourselves out of the shit today, like as you do as a goalkeeper, yeah. Um, and yeah, I remember I think I made the the penalty save in regular time in the first half, and I was like, alright, we're on, you know.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:10

There's a bit of a trend here with you and penalties, isn't there?

SPEAKER_00 1:11:14

No, it was it was a good year. Because um, yeah, look, like I said, I think you just I keep saying like I said, I didn't realize how many times I didn't realize it until you pointed it out, but um no one else did either. Um yeah, I made that say the penalty save, and I thought, okay, today's the day, like let's be the hero.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:38

Yeah, I remember we watched the highlights before we came on, and you made that save to your left where you flicked it, flicked it just over the bar, going in the top corner, and then the corners come in, the guys headed it back across you. And in me in that goalie fashion, I've gone, for fuck's sake. But I think that's the that that's the high and the low of the games that we experience. I don't think anyone else on the pitch ever really. I mean, outfield players obviously live and die by the the storyline of the game, but we have a chance in those moments, and I think great goalkeepers deliver when it matters most. So you've produced nine moments of brilliance in the game, you've saved the penalty, teams down to 10 men, you're in the shootout, you've saved, I think you saved four, didn't you? Uh maybe it was three in the shoot. Yeah. Save three in the shootout, one in regular time. I think there's a part that I'm I'm leaving out, which I'm gonna mention now. You ended up taking one, yeah. And I remember watching an interview that you did slightly after the game about your mindset going into taking that penalty. You're obviously taking the penalty against uh an A-league hero as well in Jamie Young, who had a good career over here and then went back to Oz. Standing over that penalty with that pressure, what's going through your head?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:58

Um, yeah. To be honest, at that time, like I was just, I don't know, I was just so calm. Like, I remember in the huddle before the shootout, because during the week, obviously we were working on pens, and in case a scenario came, and you know, the the boss was like to me, he's like, he's like, you can take one if you want, like if you're confident, go for it. And then you know, obviously came the shootout, he's looking around saying, All right, you're number one, you're number two. He looks at me, he's like, You're number three. He's like, Do you want it? I was like, Yeah, fuck it, like, yeah, let's see what happens. Yes, and um, yeah, I think like obviously you don't realize it, but like that moment when you put the ball down, and you just it's just you and it sounds so weird. Me explain it, me and the looking at the goalkeeper. I was just like, I don't know, at that time I'd I I wasn't really feeling anything. I mean, I had in my head like where I was gonna go and everything, but I think me being a goalkeeper, like not a natural kind of finisher, I made it so obvious where I was gonna go. Like, I think in the last minute I just looked up and I saw uh Jamie creeping to one side, and I thought, alright, I'm just gonna go the other way. And um, yeah, I think being able to be so calm in that moment was actually the deciding factor. Maybe if I wasn't, you know, as relaxed and calm, maybe I just panic and just try beat him on the side he's going. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:28

There's a there's a great clip of you on YouTube. We'll have to find it and send it to you afterwards. But like the photographers missed an opportunity there. You know, like have you heard of the term aura maxing? Like you nail it, you nail it to his left-hand side, and there's like this point where you just turn around, you look at your team, you're like, Yeah, I'm that guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:47

I was looking at one of the strikers on the bench because like we always used to take pens and whatever after training and whatnot. And his celebration, he always does these ones. And like I just turned around, I looked straight to the bench, I looked at him like that, like, I'm the goal scorer now. Like I've taken your job.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:03

That's so sick. Yeah, yeah. Every time you look at that photo though, every time we talk about it, I can see this like smile that comes along your face. And I think there's moments in your career as well where you have happy emotions that are attached to them and they sit in your memory. Like, that is a that is a game that's gonna be there for the rest of your life in your head. Like, do you do you ever think about the impact that the moments that you create on the pitch have for the rest of the football world?

The Socceroos debut, family sacrifice and what it all meant

SPEAKER_00 1:15:28

Yeah, I think like being a footballer, like some of the most rewarding kind of stuff is like example, like after this game, you know, I'm flicking through my phone and people are sending me videos, and like it's crowd um kind of like views in the stands, and like you make a save, and like the celebration in the stands, like how happy people are that like you know, like that feeling of like being able to give happiness to someone, like let alone a stadium full of people, it's it's an it's unbelievable. And like that for me is the best when like even back home in Adelaide, my mates are like they're at a pub and like they're Snapchatting and you know they're it's on Instagram stories and like direction of the pubs, like everyone's just going crazy, like what the fuck's going on here, you know. Like just like when you actually like on your own after, like you're on the couch, just relaxing after the game, and you're winding down and you're just going through everything and you're seeing you know how much emotion like your friends and family went through, and you know, fans that send your videos through whatever, and you know, the the passion and and all that that's tied into it. Like that's the most rewarding part about being a footballer as well, I think.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:48

And you've gone through your entire career, and I think you cross paths with Tony Popovich. I think there are certain goalkeepers and certain managers that just have this natural attraction to one another, and he's obviously handed you your your national team debut, and you've made your debut for the Socceroo. So huge congratulations. How was that experience for you making your national team debut, going on that journey that you've been through, and it culminating at that point in getting your first senior international cap?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:20

Yeah, so um for me at the start of this season, actually, you know, like um we touched on before how I said like that kind of unrealistic goal, and then you know, your realistic kind of targets. For me, my unrealistic goal was actually to get into the national team kind of set up and just make a camp. And I was having a great year. Um, and you know, each camp that came by, you know, I didn't make it, didn't make it, and you know, I was fine with that because it was my unrealistic goal. If it happened, it happened, if it didn't, it didn't. Um, and obviously after the final series, whatever, I finally get a call up and yeah, I tick it off. Um then going into the next season, I think, all right, what's the next kind of unrealistic target? Let's make our debut. Um and yeah, I think the next five, six national team windows, I'm making the squads regularly, I'm always there, I'm playing well for my club. So I'm thinking surely this chance, like this opportunity is coming. And each time, like, just obviously, you're you know, dealt with, I guess, a bit of disappointment, but like, you know, just another setback, like, uh, didn't play this camp, didn't play, didn't play. Until eventually I was just getting in a rhythm of like, all right, I'm just coming to camps now. I don't think I'm ever gonna play.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:44

Little training holiday. Yeah, exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:46

Get some good weather, yeah. Five-star hotels, a bit of food. Yeah, it's not a bad gig. Until eventually, um we have a friendly game against New Zealand, and um the goalkeeper coach pulls me aside, and I just said to him straight out, I was like, listen, like, let's just cut the bullshit. Like, am I playing or not? Because I need to get my mum and dad here like now, like, they're not gonna miss this. And he was like, Yeah, alright, tell them to come. I was like, shit. I was like, all right, here we go. I'm real, and yeah, like that was for me another moment where you know, from all those days when you know you first start playing football when I was eight years old, whatever it was, all the way till you know, to this moment, till then the year that followed that, it all just ties into one, and um yeah, to finally make that debut for my national team was without a doubt the the proudest I've ever been, um, the happiest I've ever been. Um, particularly just because also it's just a obviously a way to reward your you know, the people that believed in you your whole career and um sacrifice so much for you and like your family or your friends. It's just a way of saying like it was worth it, you know? Like I was able to represent my country, and that for me will will always be the greatest achievement of my career, whether it was a friendly game or or not.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:19

So you're getting emotional there, like it means a lot to you, doesn't it?

Paul Izzo’s advice for the next generation of goalkeepers

SPEAKER_00 1:20:22

Yeah, for sure. I think particularly now, um I was 30 years old at the time, like that kind of dream it was it was fading and fading and fading, and um yeah, to be able to to achieve that um particularly because I know how much it means for my parents, um yeah, that meant so much to me because it was a way of me being able to, I guess I don't know, it's like a way of just being like, thank you, like this is your reward as much as mine, you know? And um yeah, I won't lie, it was one of the toughest moments when I was, you know, we're in the doing the anthem, and of course I had direct eye line to my mum in the crowd when the anthem's going off, and she's crying. I'm just thinking, fuck, I don't need to see that shit right now. I'm putting my head down like that. I'm not looking up. And then, but yeah, that's like the emotion that's tied to it. Um, because I know how hard and how much they believed, and you know, the also the the criticism that they probably went through as well, you know, supporting their son. You know, she sent me away from from home when I was like 14 years old. Like she missed out on my childhood as much as I missed out on, you know, me being a child as well. Like, she I wasn't the only one making a sacrifice. Um, my parents' family, you know, they they they essentially lost their son and brother as well when I moved away. So um, yeah, that for me is why I'm so happy that I was able to do it and repay that kind of um faith and endless support to um yeah, my parents and whoever else was along the journey with me.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:09

Oh, and I think uh we overlook that sacrifice that our parents make for us in pursuit of greatness, in pursuit of becoming elite. And it's the car rides, it's you moving away from home and them not having you around to cause mischief or have those happy moments. And I I don't think we realise how much of a big sacrifice that is until we look backwards when we're in it. It doesn't ever seem as big as it is until we look backwards at that time that we've lost. So my question to you is what advice would you like to hand down to the next generation of goalkeepers, someone who's starting out, who has the dream of playing for Australia or playing for their national team but can't quite see a way to get there.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:05

I don't know, I think the greatest lesson I've taken so far from my career is to embrace the lows of football life in general, I think more than you know the highs, because the lows will be the the experiences that that build you and give you the foundations to to achieve your great moments, um, to achieve your goals. And while I wish everyone has a an easy, perfect career where there's no dramas and whatnot, I guarantee 100% you're gonna be dealt with a reality check in life. Um But yeah, the the key message I can say is just embrace that moment, whether how bad it is, like learn to love uh how tough it is, how tough things can be, and use it as a as a kind of I don't know a moment to to add another shield of of armor onto you, you know, and that'll um in the long run be what gets you through.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:18

Paul, thank you. Um I feel like I've learned a lot about myself from that conversation, but also a lot about you. I feel like even though we've only spent you know an hour and a bit together, I feel like I've gone on a journey with you and it's been incredible, mate. So thank you for sharing.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:34

Ah, it's been a pleasure. Got a lot of uh off my chest here, so it was it was great.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:39

I appreciate you, thanks, mate.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:41

Cheers.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:42

Thank you. Yeah, mate, that was incredible. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:47

Genuinely like that, that was unreal.