This Month in Goalkeeping: Carragher’s Controversial Top 10… and Everything Else February Gave Us

Welcome to our first ever episode of This Month in Goalkeeping - our new monthly review of the biggest stories, performances and talking points from the world of goalkeeping, starting with February. 

In this debut show, we break down David Raya’s response to Wolves and the mentality behind his North London Derby display, before diving into Jamie Carragher’s controversial top 10 Premier League goalkeepers list and the debate around legacy, peak performance and judging different eras. 

From pure shot-stoppers like De Gea to modern all-round profiles like Ederson and Alisson, we explore how the role has evolved. Plus, we unpack Matt Barlow’s recent article questioning whether English goalkeepers are becoming a “dying breed,” debating whether it’s a genuine development issue or simply the result of increased global competition in the Premier League.

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Transcript

This Month’s Stories

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Today's key stories from the world of goalkeeping include Jamie Carragher reveals his controversial top ten Premier League goalkeepers, David Rea responds to Wolves by keeping Arsenal's title hopes alive in the North London derby, and we break down Matt Barlow's argument that English goalkeepers are becoming a dying breed. We'll have all that and more because this is this month in goalkeeping. So

David Raya’s NLD Response

SPEAKER_00 0:28

what we're going to start off with is how Arsenal bounced back against Spurs in the North London derby.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

I've watched the I've watched the clip back a couple of times. So we're talking about David Rayer versus Wolves. Two on up, 90th minute of the game. A whipped cross comes in from the right hand side of the box, right to left in swinger, Gabrielle and Rye both go for the same ball, and there's a miscommunication, and the ball ends up in the back of the net. I think Calafiore is on the line and he manages to deflect it off the post and in. It's really, really unfortunate. It's a miscommunication, but I do think the context of the game and the timing at which that scenario happened had a massive role as to why that situation became what it did. I think if that situation is earlier in the game and Arsenal were 2-0 up, I think David comes and takes that cleanly, and I don't think there's any issues.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

I was gonna say that. I said I was gonna say, was it pressure that actually caused that mistake? Because I personally don't think it was Raya's fault at all. What can you do? You call for the ball, you come. But is it Gabriel who's under him? Yeah, Gabriel. It's gone to head it and they never end up clashing, then the goal's gone in, and it never looks good for a goalkeeper, does it?

SPEAKER_02 1:40

I I think I think it never it never reflects well on the goalkeeper just because it's goalkeeping. Like whenever there's a goal and whenever there's a a defensive miscommunication that involves the goalkeeper, we're always very, very quick to point the finger at the goalkeeper. But if David hadn't come for that ball and Gabriel wasn't under it, and someone had got a flick on it and it went in the goal, everyone would be would be saying, Well, why didn't the goalkeeper come for it?

SPEAKER_00 2:03

It's about how you respond. So, how did he respond?

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Yeah, very, very well. He was exceptional against Spurs. I thought to go and play against Wolves, have that scenario happen the way that it did, and then to go to Whiteheart Lane, I say Whiteheart Lane, Tottenhot Spurs fade in the whatever you want to call it, yeah, to go there and perform the way that he did. So dominant, dominant in the air, shot stopping, that save that he made where he's kind of clawed it from from behind him off the line. I mean, he's synonymous with coming for crosses. He's synonymous for those recovery saves where the ball's nearly in the net and he claws it off the line. I think there was one last season, I can't remember who was against. I think it might have been Villa. But he he's synonymous for that. And that's what goalkeeping is in terms of mindset, in terms of psychology. It's one week you can be the villain, but the next week you almost have to live in the present, park the past, and go and deliver the greatness that you know you're capable of. And I think that that's kind of what David's career's been. Like if you look at his history and his upbringing, going out on loan at Southport, which not a lot of people know by the way, or realize. He went on loan in non-league. Then you know he was at Black Blackburn, then going and signing at Brentford. He had his moments at Brentford. Then when he signed for Arsenal, he had his moments at Arsenal, especially when he was competing with Ramsdale for the number one shirt. He had that game at Luton. I mean, his whole career has been about building resilience. So I didn't really have any like I didn't have any concerns about him going to the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium and having a performance because that's what he's been doing all season. He's he's been one of the the front runners of that back four and he's been a leader. So I'm not surprised he played the way that he did, but his response was unbelievable.

Debating Carragher’s Top 10 PL Keepers

SPEAKER_00 3:41

On to the next talking point, we're gonna go into Jamie Carragher. They say he seems controversial. Is it con is it so first of all, is it controversial? I've got his list here, so I'm gonna go through his list. Top ten list. So starting from 10, and you can see the there's biases in this, right? So you got Rayner, Seaman, Southall. You can see his boyhood hero growing up there because he was an Everton fan. Edison, Vandasar, Courtois, De Gea, Allison, Shammichael, and Czech. So we've written ours. I haven't seen yours. You haven't seen mine. I haven't. Sounds wrong. But we haven't yet, but I'm gonna go who I've thrown in a curveball, so I want to go from 10 to 1 and then okay. There's a couple of people I've written a couple of notes here that that people have kind of missed out. I want to see if they're in yours. Okay. So for me, number 10, and I said we got biases, I have got bias. So number 10, I got Bruce Grobilar. Reason being, reason being is my hero growing up, I based my I loved him being eccentric. I know he wasn't in the Premier League for a lot, but if he can throw in a curveball at Neville Southall, I can do it. So Bruce Grobelar is centric, and my claim to fame is I got to warm him up once when I was at Chelsea. And is that your logic of putting him in because you got to warm him up? Yeah, there's no right or wrong answers, is it? It's an opinion. But he was my hero. So he was my hero growing up. So I've gone Bruce Grobelar. Right. At number 10, who have you gone? I've gone Shea Given. Almost nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

And and I've put Shea Given because I think in terms of longevity, if I think of Premier League goalkeeping and longevity, Shea Given has been there through all of the years that I've been watching the Premier League. So when he was at Newcastle competing with um Harper, all the way through to when he went to Man City under Mark Hughes, like kind of almost nurturing uh Cashwish Michael, Joe Hart, played in the derby game against Manchester United where they drew four all. Michael Owen scored in the last minute for them to I was there. Were you? I was there. See, I just I just think Shea Given is just a consistent.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

By the way, you've chosen a game where he conceded four goals.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

I don't know Shay personally, but the other thing that comes to mind is that really famous clip on YouTube of where he he has the ball, spins it out, and the striker nips him behind.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

So listen, it's top ten, he got him conceding four goals and making that mistake. You're digging yourself in it, making it.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

I tell you what though, Rob Shea Given 1v1 and reactions on the line, he is well up there with the world's best. I think for a goalkeeper of his size, when size at that time was like a big talking point of being six foot three and coming for crosses and being a big presence, he was probably the goalie that gave a lot of like smaller goalkeepers hope of having a career. And I remember the conversation used to be, oh, you're gonna be too short to be a goalkeeper, and used to go, yeah, but look at Shea Gibbon. But he's actually is he like six foot one? I think he's like six one, yeah. So still above average height, but but compared to you know your Petacheks and your Van der Sars, he was a shorter goalkeeper. So I think to have that longevity in the game with the physical stature that he had and using his super strengths the way that he did, I just don't think he can't be part of that top ten conversation, in my opinion. Nice.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

If he didn't throw in a curveball, it's a great shout. And then I've got Hart in there as well. You might have got him in there, and I've got given Tim Flowers, so there was ones I was considering, and now I'm going into someone who Carragher actually missed out, so my number nine is Jordan Pickford. I think he's been consistent over many years. I know he's talking about Premier League, but he's never he's never let England down. He's someone I enjoy to watch, it's all personal opinion. Yeah, you don't really see him making many mistakes, he makes some world-class saves. So I've gone for Jordan Pickford. What about you?

SPEAKER_02 7:41

I like Jordan Pickford as a goalie.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

What's yours?

SPEAKER_02 7:45

I've gone number nine, I've gone Jens Lehman.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Yeah, that one in there, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Yeah, Jens Lehman. So on Jordan Pickford, I love him as a goalie, I love watching him as a goalie. The only reason why I haven't put him in my top ten is because I don't think he's at the end of his career yet. I still think he has so much to offer. Would I push Shea Given out for Jordan Pickford? Maybe, because I think what Jordan Pickford's done for England has been exceptional. I think for me, it's too early to put Jordan Pickford in my top ten of all time. Would he be in my top ten current goalies in terms of form potentially?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

I bet you've got Allison in there. I have got so isn't that a bit hold on a minute. You're saying he hasn't finished. Yep. But then you're being a bit of a hypocrite because you've got you're gonna have, I bet you've got Courtois in there. Yep. I bet you've got Allison in there. Yep. I bet you've got Edison in there.

SPEAKER_02 8:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

So you're like, hold on, Pickford can't be in there because he's got the end of his career, but they're not. So discuss. Let me okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:49

So let's talk about the three you mentioned, right? Edison.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

People say that he's a lot younger than actually, how old is he? Edison's older than Pickford. Pretty sure.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

Pretty sure. Check it.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

I am gonna check it.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

But just on Edison, right, while you're researching that, people say that Edison revolutionised goalkeeping. I think Noy was probably the one to do it before him. And then I think there was a Brazilian guy called Rodrigo who He's 84 years old. No, my point on Edison is that Edison changed the way that English football is played under Guardiola. Yeah, not only that, he won the Champions League, he's won multiple Premier Leagues, and he's arguably considered as the greatest distributor of a football that the Premier League has ever seen. He has an absolute wonder left foot, right? So that's my reason for having him in the top ten. Allison, I would argue out of all the goalkeepers. Well, we'll come on to that in a second, but Alison, if you're comparing Allison with some of Liverpool's greatest goalkeepers, right, he is arguably like Bruce Crobela. I would argue that Allison is up there in the conversation of top three Liverpool goalkeepers of all time. Won the Champions League, he's won the league, plays for Brazil, and again, he can do what Edison does with the ball at his feet. Maybe that's the case.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

And he keeps Edison out of the national team.

SPEAKER_02 10:15

He does, and he's very, very good 1v1 with cross. He's a very, very complete goalkeeper.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

He's very never realised Edison was 32 years old.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Is he?

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Yeah. Picked for 31.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Told you, older, only by a year, but it counts. Yeah, it's true. And then the final one that I mentioned, which was Courtois. Now, if we're taking Courtois when he played in the Prem for Chelsea, I don't think he had enough years in the Prem to say that he he should be part of that top 10 conversation. However, if you're basing it upon our perception of them holistically as a goalkeeper and what they bring to the world of goalkeeping, Courtois has to be in there. So won the Champions League of Real Madrid, very good with the ball at his feet, can make saves, comes for crosses, he's got a massive frame. And he every single Champions League week, there's always a clip of him producing the most outrageous saves.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

So I I agree. Because for example, if you're gonna put that uh do the same thing, Ronaldo would have to be in there. And he wasn't how long was he in the Premier League for? Uh two, three years, I think. He has to be in there, right? Because of the the things he's done. So go on, give me your number eight. I've gone seaman. So I've gone quautois number eight. Okay, cool. I've on seven quautoir, but seaman always for me consistent. We had this conversation before we knew he was doing this at breakfast this morning, and I had this conversation with my dad and my brother, and he was like, Oh, seaman made some big mistakes. And I was like, he just highlight highlighted his mistakes, but he was consistent for so many years. But you're you're going, oh, he made the mistake in the final, the name from the halfway line, the Ronaldinho one. I'm like, but they won in the Premier League. So during the Premier League, he was consistent, he was a leader, he was unbelievable. That save against Sheffield United, and that was in the FA Cup, but unbelievable save. You watch that. Every time I watched that, I'm like, how did he save?

SPEAKER_02 12:11

One of the greatest saves of all time.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Unbelievable save. So I've got Seaman, and then seven, I've got Quartoir. So go on, do yours.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

So I've gone, I've gone David Seaman number four.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Ooh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

And I think the reason for that is because if you think about Premier League goalkeeping, 1992, I think it was Premier League came in, right? Was it 92? I think it's 92. I think it was, yeah. Yeah. I think David Seaman, maybe besides Schmeichel, was probably the second big name to come out of Premier League goalkeeping in terms of Premier League appeal, national appeal. Like if you think of goalkeeping in the Premier League, Seaman is 100% always mentioned. And obviously with Arsenal's invincibles, around that time where Arson Wenger, I keep doing that, Arson Wenger? Arson Wenger. Around that time where Arson Wenger introduced sports science, medicine, nutrition into Arsenal, he was part of that pioneering group of players that went on to achieve whether people like it or not, Premier League greatness of going a whole season undefeated. And he was, you know, not part of that team, but part of that era of players. So I just think he set up what modern, not modern, modern goalkeeping is, but what goalkeeping is as we know, in terms of being a great shot stopper, having a presence. I think someone said to me he's got like the largest hands that anyone's ever seen. And I actually had the pleasure of meeting him at the training ground at QPR last season. Really nice guy, but you can tell he's got this presence and this aura about him. Did he have massive hands? He did. You know what I say? Massive hands, massive gloves. They do.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

As we've seen from Fraser Forster over there, Jesus Christ. Unbelievable. And Ray has hands as well. But what size is he?

unknown 13:52

11.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

11. And he's how tall is he? Six.

unknown 13:55

Six two.

SPEAKER_00 13:56

Is he six two? Is he? Is he?

unknown 13:58

Maybe a little bit more six one.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Yeah, that's like that. It's huge. That is huge gloves.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Yeah, I went, I went David Seven Seaman number four. That's for me personally.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Okay, so I'm gonna do my because we're getting a bit mixed up here. I'm gonna go number six for me is Edison, and then I've got five Allison.

SPEAKER_02 14:18

So you've gone Allison above Edison.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

Yeah. Reason being, I'm going with he starts for Brazil. I actually think and he's one-on-one shot stopping, but then I love Edison's kicking. Every time I see him kick, I'm like, oh yeah, it's got a one, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

He's got an absolute one of the left foot. No, I I agree with you. I agree. I think Allison as a goalkeeper from the shot stopping and the crossing side of things has a little bit more than Edison. I think Edison, though, has the best distribution that I've seen in world football. Ridiculous. I've not seen a goalkeeper bet better. David's actually up there though as well. David Ryer's up there. But I I've not seen many better than Edison.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

When you see them sidewinders.

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Oh, it's ridiculous. Have you seen the warm-up against Newcastle? I haven't. So there's a clip on YouTube of Edison's warm-ups against Newcastle, and he's hitting the sidewinder, and it's going out with a little bit of fade about knee height. It's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

When you see it in the flesh, shh. Really? Oh, it's oh, it's beautiful, isn't it? It's it's I prefer that than sticking one in the top corner. When someone hits a great sign winder, you might hear me. I've been watching it. I'm like, oh my god. Oh, okay. Oh. Do you remember?

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Do you remember when do you remember when, like, I think this is the back end of his career, but when Aguero was at Man City and Guardiola came up with that tactic of not being offside from goal kicks? So Edison can obviously launch it as well. He's got unbelievable range. So he'd get Aguero to stand, or I think it might be Gabriel Jesus when he's at Man City, he'd get him to stand beyond the back line. Edison would pump up this 75-yard ball, and if it ran through, the striker was on goal because you can't be offside from a goal kick. Yeah. So to have a goalkeeper with that range as well, but I just think Allison has a little bit more in terms of the goalkeeping side of things. That's just my opinion. I don't know what you think.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

Yeah, I agree. I can't disagree with that. For his one-on-one saves, aura.

SPEAKER_02 16:17

Yeah, he's got with the long hair, he's definitely got aura.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Yeah, just for me, it's I feel like going Edison. Allison Philippa Sue. By the way, you might not know that song. It's called Rotterdam. What a song about a beautiful South.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

I'll be honest, I didn't know that song. I was just laughing along with it.

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Did you not? Did you remember that's number one very beautiful south? That's my six and five. Who's your six and five?

SPEAKER_02 16:43

My six and five. So my number six is David De Gea. Yeah. I don't think you can have a conversation about goalkeeping in the Premier League without four. He's your number four. Yeah. Titles. Yeah. That's the only reason why. Yeah. He's the only reason he's not part of my top three is because of his shot stopping. Not shot stopping, sorry, his Premier League title.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

I was gonna say that's that is controversial.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

No, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

Okay, he's one of the best shot stoppers ever.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

This is this will be a controversial take. I think David De Gea might be the best shot stopper that the Premier League has ever seen. Controversial. I there's a reason why it was trending on Twitter, Dave Saves. And I've spoken to a few people at Man United who had the pleasure of watching David train. Everyone said, Yeah, yeah, well, uh well, Bish, for example, like Nathan Bishop worked with him, our mutual friend. You've worked with Bish, you know Bish really well. But I've I've also spoken to a goalie coach who used to watch and work with David. I won't name who it is out of privacy reasons, but he said he would go up to David in the morning in the canteen and he would say, David, give me something today that will remind me why you know why you're Man United number one. And David would come out and he would train, and David would always have one moment in training, apparently, where everyone went, he's the only goalie in the world that would save that. And if you look at the save against Everton, I think from Leighton Baines, or the penalty save from Leighton Baines, you look at the double save from Lacazette and Sanchez at Arsenal where he broke the Premier League record for 14 saves in the game. I just think over the course of four years, there was no one near him in terms of shot stopping. Like the ball would be in the top corner and he would save it. And I actually think Man United fans got so used to David De Gea saving the day all the time, it made it very difficult for Onana to come in and cement himself and establish himself amongst the fans.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

What was mental though? Us being Man United fans, well, pre- I say previous Man United fans, I'm not that emotionally involved anymore. Was that didn't get a new contract and then didn't get a club for it. What a year? And no one took him on? That was that is mental. One of the best goalies in the world didn't renew his contract. Um crazy for me. Crazy.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

I think that just uh that's probably a side of football that people don't like really see or understand. It's like in football and in goalkeeping, you need so many things to line up. So David, I think he I think he won the golden glove that year. Did he win the golden glove? I think he got voted Man United player of the season. I think it was. I think he got voted player of the season at Man United. But because of the managerial changes, Man United wanted a goalkeeper that could ball play, hence the reason why they didn't renew his contract. And I I thought it was crazy at the time that they didn't renew his contract, but I kind of got it from a football football sense in terms of the ball playing stuff. But for him to then not get a club, what's the goalkeeper's job?

SPEAKER_00 19:48

It's to keep the ball out of the net. You say he's the best Premier League shot stopper ever, but he can't ping a pass. But then, say for example, where Anona's come in, he can apparently ping a pass, but then surely it's about being an unbelievable shot stopper. Surely the goalie is there to keep the ball out of the net.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

But that's why goalkeepers like Allison, Edison, Ryan Sue. Who?

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Philippa Sue.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Philippus. Sorry. No, but that that's that that's why goalies, that's why goalies like Alison and Ryer and Edison, they're they're a pretty they're they're a premium in today's market because they can do everything. Like David was an unbelievable shot stopper. Do I think he had opportunities to show with the ball at his feet? I don't think he did, but like I just think the game changed, and he was probably caught up in that transition period of Man United going from a um a more direct team from goal kicks and uh and needing a shot stopper to a manager who then wanted their goal, their goalkeeper to be able to play out from the back and build. So yeah, I think he was just a victim of circumstance, but yeah, he was ridiculous. Those four years at Man United, I mean, I used to love watching him play, and he was so chilled as well. He reminded me a lot of Van der Sar in terms of his demeanour and body language, just so relaxed.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

So, who have you got quickly five and four for you?

SPEAKER_02 21:16

So, number five, I've got Allison, and number four I've got David Seaman.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Okay, cool. So let's go into top three. It's gotta be the same, the same goalkeepers.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

So who have you got number three?

SPEAKER_00 21:27

Van der Saar.

SPEAKER_02 21:28

I've got Van der Sar as number three. Why have you put Van Dessar as number three?

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Because I think the other two are better. What a silly question.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

Like, why why, for example, why Van der Sar as opposed to an Allison?

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Why Van der Sar?

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Or a or a David De Gea? Why Van der Sar over them?

SPEAKER_00 21:54

The amount of time he played. Like people said he was coming to the end of his career. And he was at when he was at Fulham and then went to play for Man United for six years. Man United couldn't find a goalkeeper. Come in. Say when you have a world-class goalkeeper, calm, composed, he changed everything. And I I am biased. So obviously, I'm Man United, so I've gone Vanessa number three just because of that. And he's obviously at the end of his career, he's obviously finished his career as well, where they're still playing. So listen, this is all this can all change. Yeah. A few years down the line, when Allison's come to the end of his career, and I might put him up there and things could shift around. But the moment he's finished. Man United won titles when he came in. He was maybe what was he when he went to Man United? Was it 31, something like that?

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Yeah, I think it was 3031 from Fulham. Transfer from Fulham million. Unbelievable he went to Man. I think it might have been three million quid, no? Who was that? Sorry. Vandessaar to Man United. What was it? 2000 and 2000. Was it 2006?

SPEAKER_00 23:03

What bargain that is? Three million. I think it was three million quid. That's a stitch up, they got stitched up there for three million.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

So you moved from UV to Fulham for 10.3 and then United got him from 4 million to 3. 4 million. 4 million. So 3 million plus add-ons then, right? Yeah. AP, you're right. There you go. Funny story, my first ever Man United game, I can't remember the year that it was, but it was Man United versus Fulham. Tim Howard played in goal for Manchester United, wore the grey. He could be another one that could be in there, by the way. Tim Howard, yeah, he could be he could well be in there. But Tim Howard wore the grey vodone top and Van der Sarr played at the other end for Fulham. I think Man United won 3-0 at Old Trafford that day. That was my first ever Man United game.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Go on, who's number one and number two? So obviously, we've got the same people. We do. We've got Schmichael and Czech.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

But you've gone Schmeichel first, haven't you?

SPEAKER_00 23:54

Obviously, you've gone for Schemeichael first.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

See, I've gone Petter Czech number one.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Why? You're not a true Man United supporter if you don't put Peter Schmichael.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

I'm logical. I'm logical. I'm not driven by emotion.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

You're on the line, we're all driven by emotion.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Okay, you tell me why. Why have you put Schmeichel over Check? Because I support Man United.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Okay. If that's not the real reason. What's the real reason? I think he changed goalkeeping. Schmeichel. Yeah, I think he changed goalkeeping. He was unbelievable to watch the one-on-one saves, the star jumps, distribution. It was unbelievable. Well, for that time, coming in from the back pass rule where you could pick it up. I don't know if you remember the I don't mean. You probably don't. I was born in I was born in 96. Yeah, so it was Euro 92, wasn't it? I'm pretty sure it was the they that was the final. I think that's changed the back pass rule where it went. Germany didn't end the final. Yeah. They didn't. Have you ever seen the clips where it went, I have they're back, they're back, they're back, they're back, and that was like that. We can't do this anymore. You're gonna you can't do that anymore, that's cheating. But he still had a hell of a like strike on him, his throwing, his throws. He again, I think he changed Man United when he came in. The star jumps coming from Hamball, so yeah, it's a very emotional decision, it's very tight, they're both unbelievable goalies. But I've got to go She Michael number one, check number two, and I think everyone will agree with me apart from Jamie Carragher.

SPEAKER_02 25:28

I disagree.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Okay, hold on a minute. Where are we going? We got who's who's number one, number two?

SPEAKER_02 25:35

What for me?

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

I always say Petter Czech that's purely and solely because of his clean sheet record.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

He's Chelsea, he's he's Chelsea fans, so there we go. He doesn't count.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

Uh I'll go Peter Check.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Oh wow! Boom! Hold on a minute, hold on a minute. We we need someone with sense. Miles!

unknown 25:54

He's just gone.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

Miles! He said so. The person with most sense just shouted out Peter Shimichael. So go on, give me your argument for that.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

Okay, here's my argument. Peter Shichael undoubtedly revolutionised the way that we view goalkeeping in the Premier League. In terms of the star jump, I think there was a save in the Champions League, which is very like the Gordon that's the one you're going with, aren't you? Yeah, the Gordon, like the Gordon Banks-esque save.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

Oh, I remember that one, yeah. Is it Vodegrad? There we go.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

That's it. That's unbelievable ball knowledge, by the way, from you. Thank you. In the tracksy bottoms of the old school Man United clubs.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was that.

SPEAKER_02 26:33

So in terms of shot stopping, in terms of 1v1s, in terms of what we view now as like one of the more extroverted goalkeeping characters, I think Schmeichel had that in abundance. Like that outlandish, extroverted, you know, leader, Rottweiler at the back, back of the back of the pitch. That was Schmeichel. Unbelievable goalkeeper. But unbelievable. But but Petachek played through two eras of goalkeeping. Played through two eras. He had the old school era where goalkeepers were taught to boom it and be world-class shot stoppers and come for crosses. And he also played in the the back end of that Chelsea team, but also the Arsenal team, where he was asked to play out from the back. And he was so adaptable as a goalkeeper, and he has the clean sheet record, and he's also won the Champions League. I just and I and here's a thing that a lot of people might not know. With his back four, he was so innovative that he had so many different languages in that team, he learnt six languages so he could communicate with the players on his team. So I just think as a complete goalkeeper, I just don't think you can overlook him. And in as in terms of his football knowledge, there's a reason why Chelsea brought him in a sporting director as well, because he clearly understands the game beyond just what happens on the pitch. So I don't know if you've ever heard him speak, he's so intelligent. Not to say that anyone else isn't, but he just understands the game beyond goalkeeping and beyond what he did in his career. So for me, looking at what he did on the pitch, but also what he's achieved off the pitch, I just don't think there are there's anyone else in that list who supersedes him when you think of Premier League goalkeeping. That's my justification.

SPEAKER_00 28:13

So I've just asked ChatGPT, who's more knowledgeable than me. And it's I think it's who's to say who's better than who, right? Yeah. Because it's just opinions and they're unbelievable goalkeepers. And I heard Johnny Wilkins was saying who's the best in the world, and he had all this spill about and he's so right, who's to say who's better, right? That's true. I've just asked ChatGPT and it said She Michael, so that's the end of the story.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

I just I just don't think that you can have anyone else up there besides Czech based upon personal opinion, but also the facts to back it up. I think he has to be number one. That's my but yeah, for me, I'm completely biased.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

That's the reason why.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

You you are.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

I am, but

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Are English Keepers a Dying Breed?

SPEAKER_00 29:38

on, let's talk about English goalkeepers. So Matt Barlow reported in the Daily Mail on how English keepers have become a dying breed. So in the Premier League. Yep. It says here on my notes only three have played in the latest Premier League fixtures: Pickford, Henderson, and Pope. Only six have made appearances all season. A figure down from 13 last season Pickford, Johnston, Henderson, Trafford, Pope, and Ramsdale. Together, these six combined have made just 97 appearances, which is on course for a sizable drop of last season's 181 and could be a new low. English goalkeepers, a dying breed. What are we saying? Are they yes or no? If so, why?

SPEAKER_02 30:23

I don't think they're a dying breed. I think it's I think it's a bit I think it's a bit reductionist to just say, oh, they're a dying breed. I think the global Premier League market has changed in terms of players. The Premier League, if you look back over the years, hasn't been as globalized as it is now. When we're talking about transfers, we're not just talking about transfers nationally, we're talking about bringing players in from around the world. So take James Trafford, for example. He probably would have played all of City's games this season, all the important games at least, and maybe the cup games.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

If he stayed at Burnley, you would have played every game.

SPEAKER_02 30:57

Right. So now Martin's gone in at Burnley and taken Trafford's place. Trafford's now on the bench at Man City, but Trafford would have played at City. So there's one. You look at Aaron at um he was at Southampton last season, he's now on the bench at Newcastle. So I don't think English goalkeepers are a dying breed. I just think there's more global competition for places in the Premier League. Obviously, when Gianluigi Donoruma becomes available in the market, Man City are obviously going to go and get him because he's one of, if not the most informed goalkeeper or one of the most informed goalkeepers in the world right now.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

What did you think of the interview that Trafford did? Because I saw him getting a lot of heat for his interview where he seemed a bit down. It was like, oh, you buzzing to be playing. And it's like, well, and he he seemed not in great spirits, and I completely get it. I was like, well, we should be pissed off that he's not playing, or he should be upset. He's come in, he thought he was gonna be City's number one, probably his dream, and it's suddenly been snatched away from him. Do you do you want people to go, yeah, yeah, I'm buzzing, or do you want him to be real and show his true emotion? We we asked for more emotion from players, and I think he showed it, and I was like, go on. So he would be playing every game, right? So he's coming through, he's coming through. Could go to a top club, he is at a top club, maybe he does need to move on, possibly. Because the reality is, is he gonna get ahead of Donaruma?

SPEAKER_02 32:22

Uh uh on the interview, I don't understand what people want from players. Do you want a goalkeeper who's number two, who has the ability to be a Premier League number one, to come out and say, I'm happy to be on the bench? No, he trains every single day, he's grafted his entire life to play. So he's not gonna come on an interview and be ecstatic that he played in the cup game when he's got the potential to play in the Premier League every week. That's just the that's just the reality of it. You people forget that even though these guys are footballers and and you know they play this sport for a living and it's that it's their life, they're allowed to feel certain emotions, they're allowed to feel passionate about their careers. And I'd be more concerned if he came out and showed that he was happy about sitting on the bench because he's got a World Cup coming up in the summer that he's trying to get into the squad for. But ultimately, he had a very, very good season last year with Burnley. It was unbelievable. How many clean sheets did he? Oh, he was he was he was on fire last year. He was on fire. So I understand his disappointment. And I think even a manager, I think, listen, I don't know Guadiola personally, but I can imagine no. I thought you do. He's on Sky Sports with you in the future. Uh all jokes aside, I I think I I think a manager would want their number two to want to play. I would want, I think he'd want his number two to be upset that he's not playing. Obviously, be a good teammate and be good around the dressing room and the environment, which from the outside looking in, it seems that way. But of course he's going to be upset for not playing. I mean, what do you think? Do you think he was he was, you know, appropriate in the way that he delivered that interview? Because I think he was.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

I want players to be authentically themselves. We always ask for authenticity, more emotion, no robots. And the whole point is you'd never win. You can never win. He's talking from his heart. He's obviously disappointed, he's gutted not to be playing. You've got one of the world's top goalies who have come in. Who else could have possibly come in and overtaken him?

SPEAKER_02 34:21

I can't think of many goalies that could have done that, mate.

SPEAKER_00 34:25

He's just been very unlucky. He's been very unlucky, and I do really feel for him. As I said, I saw him catching a lot of heat about go cry in your Ferrari. And it's like if you if you don't do the things you value, it's really hard. He loves playing football, right? He loves, he loves it. That would be like putting me. I love doing this stuff, I love it. I love talking and helping people. If you put me in a different environment and I wasn't doing what I love and I I'd be gutted, I'd be depressed. So he's in his own right to be pissed off. So yeah, I 100% agree with what he said, and there's nothing wrong with showing being this being disappointed. I 100% get it, I 100% get it, and it's just unlucky. Sometimes you're unlucky.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

That's what Stacky, that's what Stacky just said, right? When he went into Wolves. Like he went into Wolves thinking that he might have a chance of playing because Carl and Matt were uh were both injured, and it just so happens that you get a a young Wayne Hennessy, who's just reaching his the peak of his powers, come through and plays the whole whole season. Like it's timing, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Timing, yeah. Sometimes I had a discussion the other day, I think it's really important. Massive discussion with someone that I know really close to who was frustrated, and you're like, listen, here's the truth, right? Because we always get told this in football what you get in, you you get out.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

But I'm like, sometimes you can put you can put everything in, and sometimes you don't get everything out. Like, for example, if you take Trafford there last season, what else could he do? I can't remember how many clean sheets he kept. I remember going to a game against Sunderland, I was right behind it, two penalties than the last save two penalties in injury time.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

I know I did a bit I did a massive post on that as well because the dark arts there were amazing. Oh, unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

And you only appre you only appreciate that when you're a goalie, yeah, or you do what we do, right? You're like, well, he's putting more pressure on the striker and he's putting him off and he's got more thinking time. You're like, that's unbelievable. Obviously, the Southern fans I was I was with wasn't too happy about that, obviously. But yeah, I I think sometimes you can put loads in and not get nothing out, and that's the nature of the beast in football. And it's the ability to keep swinging and keep going. That's what I think the difference is. We talk about resilience, so you have to be resilient there. Like sometimes you go in, you go into a club, you get injured, you get injured. Let's take Bish, for example, get injured again when he's gone into what can you what can you do? Sometimes you're just unlucky. So I think sometimes we have to think, we have to remember that we can put our all in and sometimes get nothing out, but then you have to keep doing it and keep that belief in yourself. So you're right, it's people saying English cult keepers are a dying breed, but if you look at you take Ramsdale, he could probably play for half the Premier League teams. Easy, but Trafford could probably play for three quarters of them, yeah. And then then all them statistics change. So yeah, there's always a yin to the yang, isn't there, or different arguments, and it depends because no one would be talking about that if that happened, right?

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Oh, of course. And like again, it comes back to that to that situation of the Premier League being more globalised now. Like, you're not just like I always say this to young younger players, you're not just competing with people in your club, you're competing with the world now. Because clubs can just literally pluck out 10-15 million pounds and bring someone in. Yeah. So yeah, I I don't think I don't think the idea of English goalkeepers dying is uh is an absolute statement. Okay, it's just based upon the statistics and how things have panned out this season, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

Nice. Let's move on

United’s Lammens Thrives

SPEAKER_00 38:11

to this next one because it was gonna be close to us. And we were talking about it the other day. We were so laymans at United. Sene Lamans. Like how'd you say it? Lamans. Lamans. That's me. Lamans.

SPEAKER_02 38:24

It's like me and like me and Wenger.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

Yeah, it is Lamans. So Onana didn't have the best start to his United career. Lamans has come in, and well I look a bit of a different beast. But played the Everton, I watched the Everton game the other day. Well, I say I watched the I watched the second half because I fear wouldn't go to bed, so I was trying to watch it on my iPhone, but I couldn't watch it. But confident, unbelievably his handling was unbelievable. He is commanding of the box, ridiculous. And it seems since he's come in, May United have shifted a little bit. Obviously, you've got Carrick coming as well, but adjusting to the Premier League, everyone says May United going to the hardest position in goalkeeping. You've heard Ben Foster say it, you've heard a few people say it, but he's come in and adjusted really well. So how, why, and do you think he's made a huge difference?

SPEAKER_02 39:29

Well, first thing I just wanted to say that it's absolutely incredible what he's done. I know it's early on in his career, but it's incredible, and here's the reason why. Vandersar came in to Man United with Premier League experience from Fulham. De Gea took a season when he was competing with Anders Lindegaard for that number one position before he got himself mentally and physically in a place to go and perform at the level that he did for Man United. Lamans has come in as a number one, waited for his chance behind Bay and Dere, and has now established himself as the number one within the space of a couple of months. So what's impressive about him from a mentality point of view is how he's just come in and hit the ground running. Okay, I know he played senior football in Belgium before he came to Manchester United, but the way that he plays the game is so impressive. I look at the game against Arsenal. Okay, some might say that he was at fault for the goal they conceded from that long throw. But his bravery to come for crosses, his bravery to hold the ball when there's pressure around him on shots, his bravery to play with both feet and play out from the back, the trust that the back four has in him is absolutely phenomenal. It's phenomenal, especially I think he's 23 years old.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Had you heard of him before?

SPEAKER_02 40:39

So I had I had I hadn't so he was on Manchester United's transfer mill when Manchester United were looking to sign Onana. So I think they were the two transfer options, and they went with Onana for a number of reasons, mainly to do with Eric Ten Hag having him at Ajax before. But I know that they were looking at Lamans as a as a young alternative to come in and eventually be the number one. They delayed the transfer, and obviously now he has come in and he's hit the ground running. But I just think, in terms of Europe's top young goalkeepers, he is well up there based upon what he's showing at the moment. I mean, he's so brave, he's coming for crosses, he's holding shots that most goalkeepers would parry through anxiety, he can play with both feet, he's got good range of distribution, and the best part is he's 23 years old and he's got room to grow. And you're right, carrying the weight of that Manchester United shirt like the way that he is is just I think it's just incredible. But if you look at some of his interviews that he's done with MUTV and on YouTube, he does a lot of the mindset stuff and the psychology stuff behind the scenes. So he's really big on journaling, for example, he does a lot of um mindset work, visualization, and if you look at his demeanour as a person, he's very, very calm as well. Which I think traditionally, if you look at Manchester United goalkeepers, that's what they've always been through the years. Maybe not so much Michael, but Vandessaar and De Gea. So it's impressive, it really is impressive to be that calm at such a young age and deliver the level of performances that he is delivering. He is a big reason why Manchester United have had such a change in fortune over the last couple of games since Carrick has become manager, but also before that as well. I think he was producing moments. So that's my take on it. But what what do you think?

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Oh, 100%. I I'm thinking of the corners that Everton put in, and there was pointing on him, it was like a it was what 20 people in the space of this cushion, and the way he dealt with it, the way he dealt with it was unbelievable.

Dubravka the First to Hits 100 Saves

SPEAKER_00 42:38

To finish off, Martin DeBravka is officially the league's busiest goalkeeper. He's become the first goalkeeper to make 100 saves, facing an average 5.5 shots per 90 minutes, or with injury time and added time, 110 minutes. The highest in the league. So how's he adapted to playing for Burnley and being in the relegation zone? Obviously, he's doing pretty well. Obviously, you can't save everything, you can't save a team from going down. So, how do you think he's adapted?

SPEAKER_02 43:10

He's been magnificent, honestly. And I'm not just saying that, he's been absolutely incredible, and I think he's he's almost gone under the radar. If someone didn't know that statistic, he probably would get overlooked because of where Burnley are on the table. But if you actually watch match the day and you watch the highlights from the games, the the scores would be massive if he wasn't in goal. He is producing saves that I haven't seen goalies at that end of the table producing. Like he has been ridiculous this season. And you know, he he was obviously at Manchester United as a lone goalkeeper from Newcastle. I thought he was a good goalkeeper when he was at Newcastle anyway, and I've always seen him as a Premier League goalkeeper. But for me, I think he brings an element of hope to Burnley whenever he's in the net, mainly because Burnley can go into games and they can concede shots from distance. Or they can concede shots from close range. And he just seems to somehow pluck a save out himself, out of himself. So for me, he's been exceptional this season. He's definitely been one of the dark horse goalkeepers who's produced really strong performances consistently through this season. And I think Burnley had made a really, really good acquisition at the start of the year to bring him in after Trafford left for Man City. So yeah, that's my thoughts on it. But what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 44:24

Yeah, when you're down the bottom of the league, you rarely get talked about. And you don't all people notice is how many goals you conceded, especially compared to last season, right? Whether it was in the championship, so now being the Premier League, where last season I did they get the record? They did record number of yeah, I think so. Record number of um clean sheets, yeah, and then gone to the Premier League, so you don't get noticed so much. But for that, 5.5 shots per 90, highest in the league, made a hundred saves. Fair play to him because it's hard down there, and you have to have resilience, grit, and he's obviously thriving, so it's amazing. So this has been this month in goalkeeping. We hope you enjoyed it. Let us know what you think. Would you agree with our top 10? Who do you think's best? She Michael or Czech? Let us know in the comments.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

Czech.

SPEAKER_00 45:17

We'll see you next time.