Beyond The Box: Goalkeeping’s Untold Mindset, Mistakes and Madness
The mindset. The mistakes. The madness. This is football’s last line of defence - unfiltered. From iconic saves to brutal setbacks, Beyond the Box ® dives into the stories goalkeepers rarely tell, and no one else dares to.
Beyond The Box: Goalkeeping’s Untold Mindset, Mistakes and Madness
Dean Thornton: 3 Lessons From Coaching Aaron Ramsdale & Why This is the Hardest Position in Football
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
A broken leg at 19 could have ended the story. Instead, it lit the fuse for a two decade coaching journey that runs through QPR’s academy, first-team dugouts, Wembley highs, and Premier League pressure. We sit down with Millwall’s first-team goalkeeping coach, Dean Thornton, to unpack the real craft of the No.1: the standards you keep when nobody’s watching, the honesty it takes to own a mistake, and the patience to repeat the basics until they look like magic.
We revisit the formative QPR years, learning from Kevin Hitchcock while working with Julio Cesar and Rob Green (two world-class keepers with wildly different styles) and hear how those contrasts shaped a flexible coaching philosophy.
There’s a deep dive on elite habits with Aaron Ramsdale at Southampton, why he binned “soft” balls mid-session for match balls, how he lifts standards around him, and the humility to mentor young keepers while demanding more from himself. We also pull apart the myth of “high risk” football under Russell Martin, showing how playing out from the back becomes safe when it’s drilled daily and understood by everyone. Along the way, we explore parry versus catch, the impact of social media on keepers, the goalkeeper union’s openness, and why being a good person still matters in high-performance teams.
_______________________________
🧤 Powered by One Glove
🍿 Watch this episode on our YouTube Channel.
📸 Follow us on Instagram at @beyondtheboxpod.
📲 Follow us on TikTok at @beyondtheboxpod.
📩 Send us your questions to beyond@theoneglove.com
📙 Rob's launched a book that is well worth your time! Go and check it out here.
🥤 Want saves and sustenance? Fuel your lighter moments with the NEW Huel Lite or power through with Huel Black Edition. Get £10 OFF orders over £60 with code BEYOND10 at https://www.huel.com/BEYOND10.
Today we are diving deep into the art of the number one, with one of the most respected goalkeeping minds in the EFL. The last year and a half I've I found really tough. You're teaching them the right things, but they're not doing them, you're just ticking boxes. I didn't think the path they were going was real. It was false.
SPEAKER_03Joining us today is a man who transitioned from the pitch to the dugout at just 19 years old, turning a career-ending injury into a 20-year coaching masterclass.
SPEAKER_01Break my leg on Tom McCruce. Once I did come back, I really struggled with full-time training. I'd be out for a month, then I'd train for a month, out for a month, train for a month.
SPEAKER_03Probably fell over a bit of the game. Currently the first team goalkeeping coach at Millwall. He had stints at MK Dons, Swansea, Southampton, working with elite international goalkeepers such as Aaron Ramsdale and Julio Cesar.
SPEAKER_01I still think it's the harder position to play. We can't make mistakes. Goalie's make 10 saves, concede one, game over. Goalie's flip. Dean, how are you, mate? Morning guys, how are we? Okay.
SPEAKER_04After that, you're probably like, oh my god. Very good. Very kind of stuff. Is it going to take a we're talking about? You're about to then bring it down here. Fair enough, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's normal, that's normal. Nice.
SPEAKER_04I'm good. I um I'm good. I've had a four-hour drive thinking about all the questions I'm going to ask you. I don't know if you know. I've
Turning injury into coaching
SPEAKER_04written a just I've written a book. Did you read the first intro? That was Luke.
SPEAKER_00I'm reading the way back on the bus. First leave.
SPEAKER_04That's good. So love you, mate. I'm I'm excited, especially speaking beforehand, when you said that you were injured and then you've been in coaching for how long?
SPEAKER_01No. Uh 20 years now, yeah. I started at 19. So very kind with the career and uh ending injury. I um once that's career in then, I think I had to choose to leave myself. That wasn't uh the club's point of view, that was mine. I think that was me done at 19 as a player. Um broke my leg and I tour my cruise shirt, but um for me, I um I knew long term I wasn't gonna be in the game for uh to be a goalkeeper.
SPEAKER_04Why is that though?
SPEAKER_01Um in all honesty, I probably felt I love a bit of the game. So from signing as an eight-year-old kid at QPR, getting all the way to 19, having no real downs in terms of like um playing every week, thinking it's gonna be easy being a professional footballer to having my first injury, proper injury. Um knowing that once I did come back, I really struggled with full-time training, where I'd be out for a month, then I'd train for a month, out for a month, train for the month. Um, and I think when you're when you're a young goalkeeper, you think it's gonna be plain sailing. Um, and then you get to play with the men, the first team, and it's like, oh, this is a little bit different. Uh and you're playing with people like uh Tommy Mooney, that's an experienced Premier League player, and you're like, okay. It's been called in many times. That's where Tommy Mooney comes in. And you're thinking, oh, it's uh it's a little bit different, this um, and when you're younger, you everyone tells you like you're you're very good, you're this, you're that, and then you get to the next level, it's like, oh, that's it's a big jump. Then the next level is an even bigger jump. Um, so I got to the point at 19 where I'd broke my leg, as I say, and I tour my cruise shirt. Um, I just couldn't get fully fit to really stay in the game. Uh, as a goalkeeper, obviously they talk about size a lot. I'm 5'10 just um so the game for me was lying on your strength and your power. Like I said, I just couldn't get fit to the point where I was like, Do I do I want to go down the route of non-league? Um, and just pure luck that I got into coaching and went straight back to QPR where I was as a kid. So yeah, just just pure luck in how I started.
SPEAKER_04Crazy, 19 years old,
Starting out at QPR
SPEAKER_04going into straight into goalkeeping coaching.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so um again, going back to my time at QPR, my under, I think it's my under 10 manager at times, Steve Gallon. Um, when I got released from from Wickham at 19, he called me and said, Look, uh, I hear you've been let go. I said, Yeah, he said, Do you fancy coming to QPR to coach? And I was like, Yeah, like why not? I've never never really thought about it, to be honest. Um, so I went there at 19 and I was there for just over nine years, looking after everyone from under eight to 21s. And during that time, had a spell working with the first team was like an assistant coach, they call it now, with uh helping the the first team goalkeeper coaches, Kevin Hitchcock, Dave Rouse, Gavin Ward, uh, people like that. Um, so I had a good exposure of working from real young goalies all the way to, like you say, Hulu Cesar, Paddy Kenny, Radic Cherney. Um, so yeah, it's a good good ground grounding for me as a coach. Um, obviously, during that time they got to the Premier League, so I've got exposure of working with
Training with Julio Cesar
SPEAKER_01Hulu Cesar, as we mentioned earlier, which was unbelievable. I remember the first time he walked in to the training ground onto the pitch, and I remember talking to Hitchie, and I said, Hitchy went to me, I don't know if he's not bothered to be here or he's just that good. Where he walked across a pitch with like so much awe and arrogance in a good way. And I remember me remember the old Mizuno boots with the big white tongues. Yeah, they were like flapped over, like right to the bottom. I was thinking, like, this geese is unbelievable. I'm not seeing him do anything yet. Um, I just remember watching him kind of like, yeah, you're just been playing for Brazil, playing the Champions League for Inter, and thinking this lad's at QPR. And I'm like, oh no, I've got a serve in a minute to him. I want to shank it.
SPEAKER_04Was you nervous?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, not gonna lie, yeah. That was the first one, unbelievable. Uh yeah, so at the time, like even Rob Green, Rob Green was brilliant for me. Um, that's where I really learned a lot from from Rob Green, uh, unbelievable goalkeeper in his day. Um, I was actually talking to, we mentioned uh a lad affair earlier. Um, boy who's with me at now at Millwall. I walked in yesterday to uh day before I saw it to the canteen, and he said to me a bit about the morning sun, and this lad's like 19. I remember working with Rob at QPR, and I've just made a comment, like he made a say, great save son. And I'm looking, I said it and I think, oh no. And he looked at me like, son. Sorry, Rob. Great save. Um, but yeah, like just having having them kind of guys to to be around and watch, and obviously the coaches I worked with during that time to see how they they train, and obviously you take bits and pieces, good and bad, from from everyone. Um, but yeah, I was really, really fortunate that I got um they trusted me really to to go over and work with these kind of people on a on a day-to-day basis, even at such a young age. Like as I said, started at 19. I pretty much worked with the 21s um maybe three or four months into to being coaching, and I was they're older than me. Um, so yeah, just uh you say a little bit of luck, um, but you you own your own luck to a to a point. Um, but yeah, just just kept my head down and really enjoyed the club. As I said, I started there as a kid to play. And so I don't support the club, I support Everton, as you know. Um but QPR is a club really, really close to my heart in terms of how I started my my footballing uh experience in in life. Um, so yeah, always look out for them as a club and got to meet and still speak
Would you erase the injury?
SPEAKER_01to some some really great people that I met and worked with there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, just got one last question before I bring KP in. I've got so many questions. Thanks, mate. Just one more, just you said about a little bit of luck, right? That's something like DJ like an MTN. You said it was a little bit of luck, but it was from a really bad injury that it yeah you got your chancing coaching, right? So you're like it was it was unlucky, but lucky, it was a really bad time, but a really good time. And I always tell you, we say what do you need in goalkeeping? You need resilience, right? And it's not what happens to you, it's the reaction you have afterwards. So that injury you had just got a quick question. If you could delete it, would you delete it in hindsight, yes or no?
SPEAKER_01Uh no, in terms of if I knew I had a chance of being six foot two, six foot three, yes, I'd delete it. If I knew I won. No, because uh, as I said, I got to meet some unbelievable people. Um, I chose to leave QPR as an under 12, which in hindsight shouldn't have done. But if I didn't, I wouldn't have gone on to meet people at Wickham, such as Russell Martin, obviously a real close friend of mine now, uh known since I was 15, uh, that I've ended up working at uh a number of clubs with. Um, and I wouldn't have got to the Premier League without Russ. Um, well not at a young age anyway. Um, so yeah, um in hindsight, no. Um, as you say, you need a little bit of luck in every walk of life, what you do is a job. Um, but I'm a big believer of like um everything happens for a reason. Um, so no, I wouldn't have I wouldn't have uh changed anything. Um really fortunate to be where I am, uh, really fortunate in the experience I've had already at a young age. Um so no,
Transition from player to coach
SPEAKER_01I wouldn't change it for anything.
SPEAKER_03You said at 19 you you transitioned into coaching because of the injury, and a lot of academy players never have that conversation with them about what they want to do next. Because I think it's what is it, 0.0012% make it. Yeah, so how was that transition for you? Was it quite smooth because you'd had that conversation before, or was it a big change for you to go into coaching?
SPEAKER_01Uh it happened so quick that I think I didn't have a time to even think about it. That when I got released in the summer, so it was uh July, August, uh July, um, pretty much I think two weeks later I got a phone call to say, look, do you want to come into coaching? And I already knew in the back of my head, I'd had a couple of loans when I was at Wickham playing still, and I just for some reason I just didn't want to go down the non-league route of playing football. Um why was that? Uh I just didn't enjoy it. Like, maybe a little bit spoiled that the fact that I've been an academy all the way through eight to nineteen, um, played with some unbelievable players, and I've gone down to pretty much play with my mates, and I'm thinking like this isn't how I think football should be. Like just the way certain people behaved. Um, and that's not to say this the wrong or right way, everyone's a path has a different path, but maybe it was a little bit of ego from me going like, no, I don't, I don't really fancy it. But like I said, um I really struggled once I broke my leg. Like, the game's changed now, where sports science has developed, and obviously knowing what I know now, could I have done stuff differently? Yeah, for sure. Like, I'd have changed pretty much everything I'd done. Like my my pre-match was like baguetting chips, I think, back in the in the day of 20, like 20 years ago. Um, I'd have done things looking after my body more than I than I did. I knew to be honest, I'd have changed everything. Um, but like I said, Tuesday, Saturdays playing games, I really struggle with the physicality, like even just kicking the ball to a point where I'm like, I need to actually come away for a spell. Um and I just thought, you know what? I'm not gonna play football or earn enough money to survive. What am I gonna do? And I've never done anything apart from football. Um, so I was like, well, I either get a job, what do I do? Or I can go into coaching and and try and make a living at 19. Um, and some people say, look, why don't you just go back to QPR, it's on your doorstep. Um, you've obviously still no people at the club. Um, and at the time when I got there, they just started talking about the EEEP. So I knew that in maybe a year or two time, keeping your head down, it's gonna get bigger, the academies are getting bigger, um, full-time jobs might start to come available. And I just thought, you know what, I'm just gonna see what happens with the the QPR job in the academy and go from there. So, in terms of thinking about a transition, like I didn't have time to think, I just went, yeah, do you know what? I'm gonna do it. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And you're you're at QPR at 19, coaching, young coach, still young now, mate, to be fair. Yeah, just don't think did you know at 19 that you'd work in the Premier League at the top level with some of the best goalkeepers in the world, or was that the goal?
SPEAKER_01Always the goal, always the goal. Like when I when I first started, like I said, like didn't really think about it too much. I just thought, you know what? Um, even in terms of like breaking down, how do you put on the session? Like, I remember getting thrown at 19, and I've got uh I think so flavor example, a 10-year-old, 11-year-old, and I've got a 14, 15 in the same session. Different uh different kind of balls, size four, size five, you got an 18-yard box, how do you like you think on your feet? Um as I said, the goal for me, yeah. Of course, I wanted to get to the Premier League. Um if I had to be totally honest, did I think I'll get there? Maybe maybe. Um just mindset for me. Um but you can never you can never say you're gonna get there. Um if you said to me at 19 at the time, you're gonna be a first team goalie coach, that probably would have been my my target. I want to be a first-team goalie coach. So in some capacity, yes, Premier League first, of course, that was always the end goal. Um, luckily I've I've I've done it, but like I said, I I want more of it. I only done one season and it was a tough season. Um, but yeah, uh end goal for me. I I want to get back in the Premier League, whether it's a mill or whoever, that's that's always the beal and end of when you come up through living in England, everyone knows about the Premier League. All the European and the South American, all these players that come over, they they want to play in the Premier League. Um, I want to be an English coach in the in the Premier League. Um, we need more English coaches in the Premier League. So we need people, um, young coaches to get in there and do well for not just for for me, but for for everyone. So say, look, the English
Too young to coach?
SPEAKER_01coaches can coach.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04When you were 19 and you went into coaching, was there a perception that you were too young? Did it did anyone go, oh, what have you got to teach me? So, for example, I know you've had this, right? From KP KP being a sports psychologist, being how old were you when you qualified? Oh, 23, 24? 23 is that actually so knowledgeable, right? Same self-aware, emotionally intelligent. There's loads of stuff I can hear, belief systems coming in. Did anyone have the perception that you were too young to coach, or did anyone say anything to you?
SPEAKER_01No, luckily for me, um when I when I got thrown into it at 19, no, no one ever questioned my age. Um, I remember the first goalkeeper that I pretty much worked with was just about to be sold. Uh Liam O'Brien, he went to Portsmouth. Um, at the time, Portsmouth were in the Premier League. Liam had a lot of hype. Um, and the first thing he said to me was, um, what's your situation? I'm like, I've just come out of the game. And as soon as I said that, it was like, okay, like, not saying he wanted to stay there, he ended up moving anyway, but it wasn't like I've come out of nowhere. And then I think what I think what they test you on really early on is when you go onto the grass, can you kick a ball? Can you serve? Can you gain goal? Um, at 19, I could obviously move a little bit more than I can now. Um, and I think I joined in a lot. And when they see you serve, when they see you join in, it's like I know he's he's got a bit. I hope to I hope they say that. Um I think that's I think that was more the acceptance, it still is now. Um, when you when you serve, how do you serve? Like, obviously, there is a an influx now of younger goalkeeper coaching in first team than I think there ever has been, uh, especially in like League One, League Two. You see a lot of 27, 28, 29-year-old goalkeepers working at first team level now. Um, and I think that's more to do with like the acceptance of actually like they can play a little bit. Um going back to QPR at 19, there wasn't really anything set on me. I think because I'd been there, I knew the club to a degree, um, good relationships already with people that that was my in. Um, and like I said, when I went there at 19, it wasn't full-time. So I was only taking uh, I think at the time it might have been like a Tuesday or Thursday evening sessions with the younger Academy goalies. But I think what helped me then was when I went, I'm trying to think of back my back to my time when I was playing, there wasn't really a goalie coach as an academy player until I got to full time. Maybe towards the end I had like a session here or there, but you'd go and find goalkeeper coach and do private stuff. When now I've gone into keeping up 19, the goalies are buzzing because there's a goalie session, the parents are buzzing, there's a goalie session. Where before it was like, oh, you join the team and then there'll be a small-sided game. So I think timing, like it came to a point that E triple P they were creating more and more jobs in different areas of the game, and the goalkeeper coach in the academy was a priori. You had to have it to be a cat one or a cat two. Um like I said, right place, right time. I'd gone in at 19, kept my head down, and eventually I've got that a full-time job, I think, two or three years later. Um, so I think it was more of I wasn't being questioned, it was oh, we've got someone. So there's a little bit of luck again, maybe I'm doing the right of luck, aren't I? Make sure I think it's luck, isn't it? Make your own luck. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04When preparation meets opportunity.
SPEAKER_00Like that, good word. Good word. It's in the book.
Leaving QPR for first team
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I don't think it is, I think I missed out.
SPEAKER_03I'm not gonna know what was what was your what was your turning point at QPR? Because obviously at QPR, that's where you broke into first team football. What was the turning point for you where maybe just before you took the first team role, that you knew you were on the upward trajectory?
SPEAKER_01Uh again, we'll go back to luck. Um, I got to a point at QPR where I got to be with the first team more, not in terms of like taking the session of like supporting the the first team goalie coach, and I got to a point in the academy where I was like, I want to be a first team goalie coach. And this is probably around about 24-25. I was thinking, yeah, like not saying I was ready, and I definitely wasn't ready, um, but more to the point of like you see the first team go off to play Chelsea and our under 18 is when it would be going off to play whoever in the Cat 2 League, thinking, I wish I was gonna play Chelsea at Stanford Bridge today. And that's where I felt like a bit of hunger got got in there thinking I I want to do that. Um I got to 28 at QPR and I wasn't enjoying it in terms of I'd been there nine years, um felt even though I was still 28, it still still really was really young. Um I just got to a point where like I felt I was going stale, where I was still doing everything, 21s all the way down to eights. I had two really good part-time coaches with me that was helping. Um, but I just thought for me, I'd been at the club a long time to not move on, but I needed something different. Um and I knew I wasn't ever gonna get the first team job at 28, like I didn't expect that at all. Um and then when Paul Crichton went to Swindon, who was the first team Goldie Coach, a QPR, uh, he was at Swindon for maybe a year or so, and he just called me out of blue one day and said, uh I'm gonna go to, I think he was going to America. I was like, okay, and I was thinking, is he asking me to go to America? I was thinking, okay, what are you saying, Paul? Uh and he said, I've uh I've put you in for the swindling job, hope you don't mind. I was like, oh. I was like, okay. Um and he went, look, Dean, they're they're a young team in League One, they're all 21, 22. They had a couple, actually had two lads online from QPR. Um, he said, You you look you'll be great with them going into that first team environment. I was like, okay, do what do I want to go to Swindon? Um, and I got to a point, like I said at QPR, I thought I need to do something different. Um, and I thought, you know what? I'm gonna go meet the the manager at Swindon. So I went down there, drove down to Swindon, and he said, Look, uh, this is what we're doing, uh, this is how we play. And I was like, okay, and I come back thinking, yeah, like I think I need to go. And it just worked out hand in hand that QPR said, look, it's if you want to go, you can go. Um so yeah, so I took my first first team job at 28. Um, and I know one of the QPR players um is now retired lad called Michael Dowitt. I know that he had a a good hand in saying to Luke Williams and Mandra at Swindon at the time. Yeah, I know Dean is a he's a good lad, a good coach, whatever. I know that he he helped me along that way. Um so yeah, went in at 28 to Swindon uh and done two years there as a first team goalie coach.
SPEAKER_04I've got a little bit you keep mentioning luck all the time, right? You say it's luck, but I've been listening to you and you talk about mindset, the self-awareness to go, I'm injured, I'm probably not gonna make it, I'm gonna go into coaching. Do you know about the study done where they they looked for luck in a paper? Do you know about this one? No. So they put an advert in the paper saying if you ring this number, then you might win something, yeah. Right? And the people who thought they were lucky rang it. Right one money, and the people who didn't, they didn't ring it. There was another one where they put, I think it was money or something down on the floor. Quote me on this one. But the people who were lucky found it. Yeah, the people who weren't lucky didn't find it. So the whole point where you keep on saying luck, I'm like, it's not luck. There's a certain trait in you that looks for opportunities, you see the opportunity, you took it. Yeah, so we sometimes we put it down to luck, I think. But I think it's your mentality. Because I listened to it.
SPEAKER_01I thought I backed myself to go into that club. I didn't know anyone in that club, um, obviously apart from the lads on loan, but I didn't know the club at all. Never, I don't think I'd ever been to Swindon. Um, so I I knew from a coaching perspective, I I backed myself just because of the ground and I had at QPR. Um I just think when I talk about luck, again, right place, right time. The people I got to work with at Swindon, I then got to work with again later down the line through mutual contacts. Um so for me that's luck where I met someone, obviously. Like I said, I backed myself as a coach. But it's luck that how someone didn't know that person when we end up linking again together further down the line.
SPEAKER_03Um you had the option though, you had the option to stay, or you had the option to go. And you said about self-awareness and knowing that you felt stale at QPR towards the end. A lot of people would have just stayed there, but you chose to go. So do you not think that plays into it?
SPEAKER_01I think self-awareness, I think looking back
When academy development feels “false”
SPEAKER_01now, I don't think I'd have been there for much longer. If that makes sense. People that come into the club, um it didn't work for me on a on a daily basis where where I saw the goalkeeping side anyway. Um I didn't agree with certain aspects of of what they wanted. Um they were in control, they were the the managers of the teams. Um I just didn't think it fitted with long-term development of goalkeeping. So when I say I left, I think it would have been a little bit of both, where if I'd have been there longer, they probably would have got rid of me in all honesty. And that's just me being brutally honest. Um, and that was fine with me. I was really easy with that because the last year and a half I found really tough with um managing the goalies at the the older end, anyway, the oldest side, the 18, 21s, to make it real for them. Where I didn't think the path they were going was real, it was false in terms of if they got into a first team environment, they haven't been set up correctly to get into that uh into that environment, just with with how they were treated and how they played. Um so yeah, that's why I thought, you know what, it's probably time that for everyone I need to I need to move on and and maybe go into a first team environment where it does matter the result, it does matter uh how you train and how you play. Where at a time at QPR it felt like you're doing the right things, but it doesn't really matter the end the end of it. And so I was like, okay, that that didn't sit well with me. And obviously, when you work in the academy, of course it's about development, of course it's about learning and and teaching the the keepers. Um but I felt you're you're teaching them the right things, but they're not doing them on a daily and a game basis for the end game, for them to be professional footballers, you're just ticking boxes, um, and that's where I thought, you know what, I need to to re-evaluate where I am and what I'm doing. Um, so yeah, so opportunity took it, went with it, and I stuck to my guns. I thought, you know what, I need to do this.
SPEAKER_03Is that the danger in the academy system then training players to be good footballers but not be winners?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, I'm not saying at every academy that's like that. Um I just felt at the time at QPR it went down a different road for a bit. I don't know where they are now as academy, I don't know what they do what they do. Um, but I felt that we'd gone from um producing players, winning cat two titles. I'm not saying you have to win cat two titles to be the first short, and I'm not saying by any minute stretch of imagination, but it felt like we were producing players and getting closer to the first team, and then it came to a point where winning didn't matter. And I mean just being me, uh, and I think if you ask most people, I'm probably if I lose anything, it's it's carnage. Um, so I think me being me, I just didn't understand where, especially at the older age, 18s, 21s, you lose five nil, I don't worry, it's okay. I'm like, yeah, that can happen with one off, but when it's every week, like what point do you turn around and go like that doesn't help anyone? Where the goalkeepers, if you if you concede one, it's it's tough. When you lose every game five or six nil, like at some point the lads are turning around and blaming the goalie every game. Uh, and I just felt, you know what, that's uh that wasn't proactive for anyone. Um, and that's where I thought, you know what, I need to step away
First team pressure hits different
SPEAKER_01from it.
SPEAKER_04So, what do you find the big differences were between going from an academy environment to a first team environment? What was the difference there?
SPEAKER_01Um winning to start with. Um I ne I'd never really coached in front of fans. Like you go to an 18-21 game, there might be 200 people. I think my first game at Swindon, I think it was about 11,000 there. I think it was Bristol Rovers. It actually got called off because it was waterlogged. So that's my first game where great start. Yeah, we started well as well. Um, that was my first experience of like being in the stadium, like even just doing a warm-up and then going right then, you've you've got to do subs, you've got to do this, you've got to do that. And I'm thinking, oh, like if I get this wrong, there's 8,000 people thinking, what's he doing? Uh so there's a little bit of pressure, and like when when you're a coach and you obviously you can't play, you're you're doing the subs, you're doing set pieces and stuff like that. There is there is pressure, and you think if I get that wrong, especially they've gone into a new club, if I get this wrong, they're gonna think straight away, oh like mate, might got this let wrong. Um, so for me, the the biggest thing of the transition to first team was um it matters more, the result matters more. Um after the game, you walk in on a Monday, you see all like he's not happy he hasn't played, he's not happy we've lost, or he's happy he's as an individual. I've played well, like I've done my bit. Um, so that was like a big learning curve with even managing my emotions. Like, I was I know for a fact the first three or four years of working at first thing level, I was terrible in the fact of if we lost on a Saturday, my missus knew that there's no point going out on a Saturday night for dinner or forever because I'll be in such a bad mood. And I remember my I had a surprise 30th. Obviously, I didn't know about a surprise. Um, we lost in the FA Cup that day, and I said to my missus, uh no, I'm not doing anything tonight. And my mate rang me and said, like, because my birthday's near Christmas. My mate's like, I think like, and he bluffed it with me and said, Look, I've arranged um my staff do, like, I pay for you. I'm like, mate, I'm not coming. Like, we just lost 3-1 in the FA Cup. Like, I'm not coming. He's like, Dina, I'm gonna come and get you. Like, you were going out, like, clear your mind. I'm like, no, no, no, I'm not coming. My mate literally dragged me to the pub and said, Listen, uh, like, relax, you've lost. Like, okay, like I walked in like 10 minutes later, there's like 200 people at Suppose Party. And I've like fuming, I've like, and that's where after that, it was actually after that day, I was like, I need to change it because like the bigger picture, like, yes, you want to win, but if you lose, like you can't do anything. So after then, like, of course you care, now I care. Like, every like played last night, we lost two, one of them fuming. Um, but there's a balance, and I think that's where as a coach, you how you learn develop with okay, right? The bigger picture, right? How do I how do I help this one? Or how do I what do I need to do to help this person? Right, my life change, I've got two kids now, so I've got to be there for them. So it's and even though I'm Faye, I think because I've been doing it so long at first team level, I would like to say I have matured a little bit. Um, but yeah, it's just that's that balance, the work life balance, which is the tough one.
SPEAKER_03Football teaches that though, doesn't it? Football teaches us that when you lose, you have to behave a certain way and you have to agree to stow your you know you're pissed off and angry at the result because there's fans and there's social media.
SPEAKER_01Don't get me started on that. Yeah, I see you see a thing all the time, like I see over the sky. Like if a if a fan if you lose and the player doesn't go over and clap the fans and walks off, uh he's arrogant. But then if he goes over and claps fans and they've lost, they get he gets bad. And you're thinking, well, what do you what do you want? Like trying to do the right thing, like he's showing he cares, you're hammering him, he's walked off, you hammer him. So there's a there's a balance in there, and it's it's so tough.
SPEAKER_04You'll be judged whatever you do anyway, won't you?
SPEAKER_01Like judge for crapping, judge for going in, if you don't if you don't win, they don't care. Let's have it right. If you don't win week in, week out, no one cares. So you just get bad and then you move on to the next thing.
SPEAKER_04It's all perception, isn't it? It's all perception.
SPEAKER_03Uh
What elite goalies are really like
SPEAKER_03I think so. I think I think people outside of a football club, fans, media, I think their perception of the players is very different to when you actually get to meet them as human beings inside a building. They're human on the end of the day, just people.
SPEAKER_01Um I haven't spoken about him yet, but one of the goalies I worked at Southampton, like me when we signed him, like for me it was an awe of like, oh, like this lad's who he is. Um obviously I'm talking about Aaron Ramsdale. Um really, I didn't know. Yeah, I remember when we signed it, I was like, I wonder what one, like I don't know him, I wonder what he's like. Like, is he what people say? Is he completely different to what people say? I just don't know. Um and you talk about like being humble, talk about doing it the right way, like this this lad was was unbelievable, like how good he is. And you don't actually realise you football's a bubble, you don't actually realise like how big of a star he is. Like we signed him at Southampton. Um everywhere we went on uh on the Friday nights where we stayed, everyone's asking for Aaron Ramsdale. Where's Aaron? Where's Aaron? And you just don't realise like how big of stars some of these lads are. Um and you talked about social media a minute ago. Um when we signed him, I think for the first three months we've been at Southampton, I must have got 15-20 messages per day on Instagram, Twitter, people I don't even know. Can you get me a picture? Can you get me a shirt? Can you send me some gloves? Can you send me a video? And like I'm getting to a point where I'm thinking, like, I can't give a gun up to Aaron and go, Rambo, like, can you send me some gloves? I'll give to this lad. I don't know these people. Um, and that's where you know, like you're a you're a big star. But how how he conducts himself with obviously work-life balance is is something I I learn and you learn from you, you learn from your goalies. The they're top the Premier League boys are at a different level in in how they how they behave. So yeah, that when I when I get a little bit of stick, I'm like, who you talking about? Well, they get it on a daily basis, like fair play to them how they handle it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I agree. You talk about balance. Um something I just want to add in when we talk about balance. I don't I don't know if I believe in balance, and that's a really weird one. We can go deep in this, right? Yeah, because it's I got it's more a balanced, it's a balanced thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So you've got you're juggling many balls, right? So one ball will be more important than the other, and then you go to another ball. So it's it's a constant juggling from one area to the next. There we go. Look, I've got the old rhythm there going there's free seven.
SPEAKER_01I mean I'm not fuming at home. I'm still doing everything to do with football. Yeah, yeah. As soon as I get home, I'll watch a game, I'll be watching the clips from the keepers from the game we just played, I'll be looking at potential goalies, I'll be looking at what we need to do for the week coming up. Um, it doesn't stop your phone, and your phone's always going as well. Um, so when I say balance, I mean I'm not angry at home.
SPEAKER_04There's no such thing as balance then. It's it's really hard. Like, do you beat yourself up for not being present sometimes? I know I do. For example, so I'm with my little girl and stuff, and I'm thinking, I've got this to do, this to do, this to do. Oh my god, I should be playing with her, but then I need to be doing this. If I'm doing this, I should be do you find you do that because you're constantly as a coach always stuck in your own head.
SPEAKER_01Especially now, like I said, I've I've got two kids now. I've got a four-year-old and a an eight uh 16-month-old little boy and a little girl. Um like people forget, like over Christmas, when everyone's at home, um I'm at work. So, like from the 22nd, say to the fourth, I think we have one day off just because of the amount of games. Uh, I think we have four games in 10 days in the champ. And listen, I'm not moaning, that's the industry I'm in, and I'm I'm really pleased I'm in it. Um, but when I say about the balance, like I literally got to see my two kids one day. Um, so there is tough, and you do miss out on stuff, but I'd like to think that they know that what I'm doing is for for us and moving for uh for the future, the the bigger picture. Um, and to be fair, like I'm I'm really lucky with my missus is brilliant with my kids. Um, and she knows that when my phone rings, I I have to answer it. And she knows that if I'm watching a game, I'm not just sitting at home watching football. She knows I'm I'm doing it for a purpose. Um, so I'm I'm really lucky with that part of my life. Um, and I'm I'm quite lucky with my daughter that I can walk in and go to my four-year-old daughter, what do you want to watch? thinking she's gonna say pepper pig, and she'll tell me I'll go and watch football. So I'm like, brilliant, all right, watching this game. So how you teach them young, so yeah, but that's um it is a balance, like you say, balancing. That's the word it's honestly a balance.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, balancing. It is though, when you think about it, because you have like I always explain it that you've got different balls, but some of them are made of glass. So some of them are made of rubber and you can drop it and then it comes back up. But say, for example, if you drop the family ball for too long, it smashes. Yeah, if you drop the health ball for too long, yeah, it can smash, right? But all the other stuff we can kind of keep juggling, but we've got to keep these other glass balls in the air.
SPEAKER_01And you always need to know what's going on in the football world as well. Because when you go in to your office, to your training ground, if you something's happened the night before, everyone's talking about it straight away, and you're like, I've not seen that. And you're like, what you didn't see that happen? You're like, oh no, I'm looking after me, kids.
Traits of the greats
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I need to see that.
SPEAKER_03I was watching uh yeah, you said you said it to me all the time like, Why are you watching Virtue Trophy? I'm like, you never know, there could be a goalie in there.
SPEAKER_04Don't get the chance to do that anymore. You too, YouTube. We talked about some of the goalkeepers you work with, so Ransdows are people listening and watching the podcast or what they want to get to the highest level, and you've worked with people at the highest level. What are the traits of the greats? So, what traits do they possess?
SPEAKER_01Doing the basics consistently every day.
SPEAKER_04What's the basics and what are the basics?
SPEAKER_01The basics for me is like we talk about like delving into goalkeeping, like the handing shapes, how clean you are and in and around you. Like everything sticks. The top players I've I've seen, it just becomes natural where you might be a goalkeeper at say championship level, makes a save, and everyone goes, Oh, brilliant, and the next one goes through his hands, and you're thinking, Oh, like should have done better. Where the Premier League boys they just do it every day, and it's like just natural. Um I think where I was really lucky at Southampton in the Premier League, even though week to week basis was so tough because of the results. Um, I was really lucky with the the three seniors I had with Aaron Ramsdale, Alex McCarthy, and Joe Lumley. Um, obviously Joe Lumley I worked with as a kid at QPR, signed him as a 16-year-old. Alex actually played with, he was two years below me at Wickham. Uh, and then obviously Rambo, the club signed for the year in the Premier League. They were so good together where everyone knew their role, where Rambo knew that the match day was important in terms of like he's gonna be the number one. Alex knew that every time Rambo steps on the line, if something happens, I need to be ready. And where he is as a character, real calm, um it just made it, he just sat in place perfect that yeah, you're playing now. And he's like, Yeah, no, that's fine. I'm like, Yeah, you're playing against like whoever, yeah, it's fine. And I said, Okay, where Joe Lumley um spoke to him the summer, but previous to coming so much, I said this is your role, you need to be on it with training. You need to uh uh if you have a bad result or bad dip in form, you need to like be the lively one in the group, and them three together, like it was a joy going into the training ground every day, even though we'd lost at the weekend or lost in them in midweek. Like, I knew that I had to for me, I had to be on my on my metal with the three seniors because I wanted to keep them going. Uh, and that's where for me working with Aaron, um, he was just on it every day. Mentality, like like the same mentality monster. Um, I spoke to a few goalkeeper coaches prior to signing them, and everyone said he's a great kid, he does this, he does that. And I think I like everyone says when you speak but ask someone, like would you think a great lad? And you're thinking, okay, like, but does he do that every day? Like, does he? Honestly, uh just the work ethic, wanting to go and go for everything, shooting drills. He just trained for an hour and a half, then they got a shooting drill, which is sometimes a bit of a token one. The last 20 minutes of session, I'll do a shooting drill. He went in and just done everything. You're like, wow, like the levels that this lad has. But he's got um he's got a real good upbringing with his he's got a good family network around his mum and dad are brilliant, his agents are a great lad as well. Um, and the mentality he's got to to drive himself forward, even at the hardest times when you're you're getting pumped in the in the Premier League. Um wants to get back in the England fold, which I think he should be, and hopefully he goes to the World Cup in the summer. Um, but just coming in every day and like stand if you're if you're off your standards, he like he picks up straight away. And you you can't be off your standards, you can't be in the Premier League, you've got to be on it every day. Uh, and he just brought a real joy to to sessions where he would challenge you physically, mentally, emotionally, every aspect of the game. But he knew you were coming from a good place, and I I knew that I was trying to do the best thing for the the three seniors at that time. Um, but just how he how he worked his work ethic for me and talk about top goalkeepers, the work ethic that he he brought into even to the younger lads, they see oh Aaron Rams, I've I need to do that then. And he's just such a good such a good goalkeeper in in shot stopping, distribution, cross-taking. Um but what was good about him was how he helped other lads as well. The younger goal is he would go and spend two, three minutes and listen, what'd you think on this, or what'd you think on that? Um, and when you go obviously to off the pitch, there's so much more now we do with analysis. Um, with like, for example, we we do penalties on uh either a Thursday or Friday, and the depth he would want to go to as well. So I'm talking to Aaron, like, what'd you think on this? What do you think? And he would actually, well, why aren't we doing this more? Why aren't we doing that? Um, and the biggest biggest compliment I can say to Rambo is where he where he is as a goalkeeper in his career right now. Uh, we had a lad and his uh dad come in uh to watch a watch a session, just a goalkeeper session. Um, it was a friend of the managers and young goalie that I knew at Swansea, and uh he came down to Southampton and watched the session. I said
Inside Aaron Ramsdale’s Mindset
SPEAKER_01to Rambo, like, are you right with this young lad watching this? Yeah, no problem, like fine. 10 minutes into it, he's diving around with the kid. And I'm thinking, like, the lad's 10, 11 years old. So already the lads, like, I've just trained with Aaron Rambo, it's brilliant. And I said to the parents after, I said, Listen, um, I've got to go into a meeting now with Aaron about. Can't remember we were playing, uh, just to go through obviously their attacking threats, penalty, stuff like. And Rambo walked past that and went, come into the meeting then. And I was like, Do you want him in there? He's like, Yeah, get him in. And he actually done, we done the whole thing, it was like a 20-minute meeting, me, the two other keepers, uh, Alan Joan and Rambo. And he actually stood up and started speaking to the goalie like this is why I'm at the young goalie, this is why I'm doing this. Uh, what do you think on that penalty? I'm thinking, like, that's incredible. Like, he's playing against whoever it was on the on the weekend, Chelsea, for example. And even though he's already focused into what's on that screen, he's actually spending time with a young lad. They didn't need to. I think that's just a great lad, like top, top, top lad.
SPEAKER_04You remind me of a lot of the players that I work with at the elite level, like we both know Matt Bloomfield, yeah. He said he when players used to come into Wickham, younger players, he used to say, What do you think I can do better? How can I how can I improve? And the other thing that I picked up on as a coach, right? So the the the elite players that I work with when it comes to mentality, I have to up my game, yeah, because they will challenge me and push me, question me. And I'm like, Jesus Christ. And it ends up being a two two-way relationship. They help you, they they actually help you, right?
SPEAKER_01I learned so much in the Premier League.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and you help them, so it's a two-way relationship, it's it's it's an exchange of needs, yeah. So top players I work with, they're pushing me to be a better coach and a better coach and a better coach. And I see exactly the same traits that you say in the players that I work with, yeah, they just want to learn. They just want to learn, even if it's a young kid and they see something off then they're about what that what do you do there?
SPEAKER_01Exactly what I spoke about earlier about when you asked me about going into non-league, you tell a non-league player back in the day, like, what'd you feel like? I don't need to do that. And you're thinking, you play for whoever, like this. This lad plays in the Premier League, and like I'm asked, yeah, I think we should try this, or can I I need to do this? And you're thinking, he plays in the Premier League, you're playing for whoever, and you won't take advice, you won't take this. But this lady who plays for England, I'm trying to help, and he's like, Yeah, like what do I need to do? Um, and that's where I felt like that's incredible from a lad that's been an England national, played for Arsenal, uh, in terms of fees being bought by clubs. I don't know, no, must be over 60 million pounds. Clubs are spent on them. Um, and for him to come in every day and go, like, I want to try this, I need to do that, uh, be in the gym, works on his program, just just top top. And I'm thinking, like, if he can do it, then everyone else needs to follow suit now.
SPEAKER_04It's ego, right? It's ego. You you you notice it the lower levels, non-league and stuff coming in with the what like I know it's bad, coming in the wash bags, but the ego, but the ego. Yeah, but the ego mum was always fake. Mine too. It's paradoxical that the the non-league players have got the bigger egos, and I find it than the Premier League players, they just want to get better. They do how can I get that one percent? How can I learn? Who can I learn off of? They're looking for resourcefulness, they're looking to learn off everyone, they're looking to can I learn something from one person they might know, they might know something different, but I don't know, right?
SPEAKER_01They've got standards, right.
SPEAKER_04But same as me, when I was younger, I was a bit of a dick. Right? I thought I knew it all. And obviously, the more you know, you realize you don't know anything, right? When someone told me when I was younger, I'd have been like, I've got a great mindset. And now I'm like, I question everything. I'm like, oh, could that be better? How do I learn off that? How can I learn off you? How can I learn like this? I'm learning here. So this situation, I'm always trying to learn and pick up things that I can learn. And the one thing I want to pick up on from what you said, if any younger goalkeeper listening, any anyone listening really, is that you can always learn off everyone. And you should always have that learner's mentality. Yeah. We call it a lifelong learner, right? We want to be a lifelong learner and we can constantly learn and pick up information off any anyone. Whereas what I find is it's very generalised, but a non-league player will have a bigger ego than the player, the players that I work with here at the top, they just they're questioning, questioning, questioning. The ones that are in, for example, as I work now in championship or league one, they want to get to the Premier League, they're ringing me, go, I had one call yesterday. Can you put me in touch with a nutritionist? Yeah. I'm looking to change my fitness. Can you who who do I need to go to? Analysts. Who's the best analyst I can go to? Even outside of the club, they're looking to get that one extra little bit that can give them that little 1%, 2% that they know can make the difference.
SPEAKER_03So I think that's a big point to I think I think it goes beyond being a learner, though. And I'd be curious to know what you think about this, Dean, but I think it comes down to having an unbelievable curiosity about the game. Yeah. Like I've got one goalie that I work with, um, and he will literally sit on Y Scout on the weekends when he should be resting and be off. And he will sit on Y Scout analysing all the goals that get conceded from the Premier League and the championship on the weekends. And I said to him, Why do you do that? Like, do you not just want to have some time to switch off from football? Like, do you not need to be away from it? He goes, I can't. Like, I just I just love to learn. I'll look at the footwork of the goalkeeper, I'll look at the positioning. But you said about Rare Reed mentality about how certain goalies like, like an Aaron or a Julio, why they go to the top. I think it's because they're just generally passionate and curious about the game.
SPEAKER_01I think they're honest with themselves as well. So like the bit the big thing I took from Rambo was whether it's in training or games, um after the session or after the game, we spoke. I like I don't really speak to the goalies much after games because uh there's always too much emotion, whether you win, draw, or lose, and however they however they played, or whether you think there's there's too much emotion for me. So I always normally leave it till Monday. Uh just uh like and it's not like a sit-down formal chat, it's literally let's walk out to the pitch and what you think of now, what do you think of this? Um, and I remember I remember we conceded one guy, I can't remember that game, but I remember the conversation. And I remember walking out, I said to him, uh, I think like, do you think you could have done better? No, I should have saved it. And you're like, okay, like I was going down the route of like, I get why he did this or he should have done that. He's like, No, I should have saved it. I'm like, okay, why? He went, well, I shouldn't need to do this, need to do that, could have done this. I'm like, okay, fine. Um, and I thought, like, that's really interesting because wherever you work, there's always, and I was going back to being honest, wherever you work, there's always keepers you speak to. Yeah, but this happened and that and it hit hit that and it it came through this area, and I couldn't see where England's an England goal click. No, I should say that. I'm like, okay, and that was the first time, like almost I was thrown back, or like, wow, like there's being blunt and there's being honest. Um, and it's just how how it was. I just remember walking out to the pitch, and I was trying to go down the approach of like softly, softly, like we should maybe maybe could have worked on that, or like, did you not see it? Like, try to not give him an out, but to say like be gentle with it, yeah. And obviously a new sign in, obviously. Um, and he was no, no, like Nadine, like, let's get this right. I need to do better. Okay, and that's when I thought, you know what, like fair play, like honest lad, and Lee's obviously worked at the top. And I that's for me as a learning experience as well. When I when I reflect, maybe in the past, I've maybe been a bit soft with the goal in terms of like not give them an out, but say, like, if you'd have done this, that could have happened. Maybe now, like, as you grow older, you become a bit more ruthless, and you go, like, you should save it. And that's where I think I am now with the the goalies at Mill where I'm working with on a daily basis. Um, I don't give them much out at all now. Where yeah, I'll get that, we get your point. No, no, you should save it. Um, so that that's been a learning curve for me from Aaron.
SPEAKER_04I think KB, it's about the key word there is responsibility, taking responsibility. Because if you say, Well, I couldn't do anything, you're powerless. Where if you go, oh, what could I do differently? You can find little bits where that you can change. And again, it's another trait that I see the top players do. They're like, they go back through their clips, it's a small stain is a difference in the details, my hip positioning, my foot position, my scan, my whatever it is. I didn't I didn't see that, I didn't see him behind me. If I'd have just done this one little thing, I could prevent that from next time. So it's like it's not about now, it's going, and we go into it and call it judgment versus feedback. Yeah, so you can go into judgment, or you can go into feedback. So the judgment is oh, so bad, or I can't do anything, or whatever the judgment is, and it's actually going into what's the feedback I can take here, what's what can make me better next time? So if that's if I get in a situation again, then I would do things differently and taking the learning that you can buy next time.
SPEAKER_01I remember doing a blocking session with with the three scene at Southampton, and uh, so we've done a warm-up outside of the goal, and all it was we had a blur up mannequin, and no, like the the big yellow plastic balls. Yeah, all I was doing was shifting it, and they were maybe two yards behind the the mannequin, and we're working on uh however to block, whether it's your feet, your hands, being brave, taking it in the chest, taking the face, taking it wherever. And I remember doing that session, um, and then to progress it, we moved it into the goal. Um, and I put the the yellow balls down and Rambo has come out and smashed the balls. I'm like, what are you doing? He went, I don't play them in a game. I'm like, oh, you want me to smash a normal body from two guys? I went, yeah. I'm like, buzzing, like, okay. I've never used the plastic balls ever again, even to this day. Like I just don't use them because I'm thinking there's a there could be a purpose with the younger ones in the academies, um,
Why Goalkeepers Must Be Resilient
SPEAKER_01but with the first team lads, like, why am I using a plastic ball? And he's just looked at me and said, I don't mind that at the start, but he said, now we're in the into the proper stuff. I'm going, okay, like they say how you learn from each other. And I just thought like I've done that session numerous times at different clubs, and no one's ever said, take the yellow balls away because it it's a bit softer. Use a proper ball and smash it properly. And I thought, you know, well, that's that's incredible how his mindset works. Because cold day, don't want to get smashed properly in the face because I've got I've got a whole session to do. And it's like, no, no, I'm done with that. Bring the bring the numbers in and let's have a right go.
SPEAKER_04It's a bit like having a sparring session in boxing, isn't it? And going, I'm gonna wear inflatable gloves. Don't punch me with them real ones. Because them them softer ones are much nicer. So you said about having being a mentality monster, right? And this is cool beyond the box. How do you go beyond the box when it comes to your mentality? What are the traits when it comes to mentality that the pros have? What is it? So, like, for example, we talk about resilience, self-awareness, emotional intelligence, learning, develop, optimism, belief systems, probably telemethic. From your experience and working, what would you say, what would you say they have?
SPEAKER_01The word resilience is the one for me. Um, but not just on the pitch, like the whole aspect of um, listen, I can't imagine what a professional Premier League goalkeeper or player does. I've I've never been that person. Um, but to say, look, I've had a taste in probably a percent where we talk about social media, how much they get battered, I I don't know. Because I get battered and I'm no one to like 1%, they have that every day. Like they can't walk down the street because of they might be getting filmed, or they can't go after like listen, they the money we're talking about in the game is big and they have a great life. Um, but resilience as a person and as a goalkeeper, to be on top all the time must be draining, must be draining. Because every, I don't want to just talk about Aaron Ramsey, I'm talking about every goalkeeper that I've worked with. Um there comes a point where that there must be a breaking point for for some of them where I can't do that pitch today, I can't do this. Where the the top ones, the Aaron Ramsdals, people like that, um, they do everything. Yeah, I'll I'll sign the next 20-30 minutes worth of autographs for the lads. Not a problem. I'll do this, I can do that. Um and I I really don't know how they how they manage their life because they're always under scrutiny. Um when Aaron was at Arsenal, again we had a brief conversation about this. Um David Rao got his place at Arsenal. Uh Raya made a mistake, they pan to to Rambo in on the bench. I'm thinking, how do you deal with that? Because you've got nothing to do with it. If you're smiling on the bench, you'll you'll be seen as oh, he's he don't care, look what he's he's trying to upset the department. Um and I'm thinking, how how would you how do you deal with that on a day like he went for that for a big spell, didn't he, at Arsenal, where obviously you come out of the team and anytime something happened, they pant him. And I'm thinking, how how do you how do you deal with that? Resilience for me, just uh on on every level of life and and and playing football because he wants to be the best that he can can be every day. He never lets his performances slip in terms of just standards. Standards is the one. Um but yeah, resilience in in how you lead your life. If you were to say, look, here's Aaron Ramsdale 10 years ago to where he is now, I wouldn't say personally much has changed. And I don't know Aaron Ramsdale 10 years ago, but I can only say that that, like I said, back to his support network that he's got around him, really good, really good people. Um I wouldn't say much has changed. And I know I spoke to Bezo, obviously, you've had Bezo on the show when he went to Wimbledon on loan from uh I think it might have been from Bournemouth and it might have been Sheffield United. Um, how I see him in clips is how I see him now with me when I had him speaking to Bezo about his mentality. I see exactly the same traits. So I just think it's the the word resilient is the one for me where I can be in my bubble, but I can also make sure that everything around me as well that I'm doing, I'm being a leader, I'm being a good, really good role model. Um, so if he does go to the World Cup in the summer, which I hope he does, um obviously Jordan's got the shirt right now, but I know that if you need someone to be in the changing room to be that role model or to support, he'll support Jordan, don't get me wrong, or whoever's playing, but I think for me, like when you want to play and you're not playing, it's gotta be so tough, and especially when it's England. Um, but I know that if he goes to the World Cup, like he'll be the best teammate you could you could be, and I'll take him in a heartbeat.
SPEAKER_04Sounds to me like one of the key skills, which is being a good person.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it helps.
SPEAKER_04Just being a good person, yeah. Well it does, yeah. Like people I know I work with really closely, they're all good people. That I we go for dinner with each other, we stare around each other's houses, we whatever we because they're just good people, yeah. They they care about others, yeah, they want other people to win. So I think one of the skills there is you don't see it, and people don't think of it like that. It's being a top class person, like helping others, like you said about the 11-year-old, bringing them in and training with them because they have an experience. He probably don't even think about it because that's just him, just as a person, just him as a party. He doesn't go, oh, I when I think about this, he's just like I just want to actually help people, yeah. Which he wants to help himself as well.
SPEAKER_03So yeah, I've got to ask though, when he when he came into Southampton, obviously he came off the back of the whole David Raya saga, yeah number one, number two situation. How was he when he came in? Because he's he's coming into a team where I think the expectation for Southampton at the time was they were gonna go straight back down under Russell Martin, who I know we're gonna talk about in a sec, plays uh the football world would describe it as high-risk football. He's coming into
Managing Ramsdale And The Unit
SPEAKER_03that environment with the expectation of trying to rebuild his status in the game. How was he to manage from that side of things and his mentality around that stuff?
SPEAKER_01Um actually really easy. Um we spoke spoke there about David Raya. I actually asked him the question when I first met uh Rambo at training ground. What was David Raya like thinking, like, probably not probably gonna put him down a little bit because he's like no, he's been put out of place a little bit, he's lost his place, he's moved on. He spoke so highly of him and said, like, he's incredible, he does this well, he done that one. And I remember coming away going, like, wow, like I know if you'd have asked me that 10 years ago as a 25-26-year-old, I definitely wouldn't have answered him the way he did. I'd have gone, yeah, I hate that geezer. Um, but no, he spoke spoke so highly of David Ryder, and I was a bit blown away to be honest. Um, so obviously, the this the January uh sorry, the summer window with with getting Rambo. Um we got him literally the last day of the window. So we luck, talk we're talking about earlier, the playoff final, Brooksy, David Brooks playing for us. Rambo actually came to the playoff final and actually dressed as Hagrid and then come to the uh the after party with us. And me and Russ actually spoke about Rambo during that couple hours of drinking and said uh Russ don't drink either. Um I said I said to him let's get Rambo. Uh knowing that obviously the situation of Arsenal, he'd what I've been told about him, he'd want to go out and play, he wouldn't want to sit on the bench, uh, which another thing is is brilliant. Like he could have stayed at Arsenal, and he chose to come to Southampton, which speaks volumes of him as a lad. Um, and I remember the whole summer Russ was speaking to Rambo, I was speaking to his agent. Um, and to get that across the line was incredible for for us uh to have have that calibre of goalkeeper in the building. Um but just getting him through the door, just the you could see like the upbringing of lads like oh, like we signed out in Ramsdale, it's it's gonna be uh hopeful. We thought it was gonna be a good season, obviously didn't turn out that way. Um, but no, just uh just having him in around the building was uh was class.
SPEAKER_03And what was he like in terms of his mentality of like playing out? Because I I've watched clips of him at Arsenal, obviously Southampton, he is unbelievable at breaking the lines, and yeah, we're big on this in terms of having like courage to make mistakes and courage to take risks under pressure, obviously fighting for Premier League survival. Yep, it's massive.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so obviously Russ spoke to him, like I said, over the summer about the way he wants to play and what what he wants from the goalie and what he expects. Um, and he took it down to a T. Yeah, that's that's fine, that's what I want to do. I'm happy to do that. Um, and this is where I speak we speak all the time about Russell Martin. Now, obviously, now I'm not with Russ no more currently. Um, so obviously, a lot of people ask me about Russ and um how he plays, it's madness, it's this, it's that. I I have the complete different answer to most people. It's it's yeah, it's madness if you don't work on it. When you do it every day religiously, it's not madness, it's just a tactical way of playing football. Um, people talk about that high risk. If I pass the ball to a centre half and he gives the ball away, for me it's the exact same with me kicking the ball 70 yards and they counter. You've given the ball away. It's still a goal. Um, and if you concede a goal playing out from the back, oh it's it's terrible, it's this, it's that. I think in the five years I worked with Russ, six years I worked with Russ, I reckon I can count single-handedly how many goals we conceded from the goal of getting caught playing out from the back. We did it every day. So when you hear managers and coaches say, Yeah, we're playing out for the back possession-based team, yeah, you are in pre-season. Then when it comes to the first team, day one of normal season, yeah, we're not a plan out for the back team no more. We'll get a result team. Um, so I'm I support Russell a lot, as you can imagine, by my tone of voice as well. Because I've this isn't the first time I spoke about it. Um, it's just a way of playing. There's there's no right or wrong way. Um, it's brilliant when it works. Is it great when it doesn't work? No, but it's like every goal. It's never great when you concede a goal as a goalie. Um, but for me, it was really easy. My job from Russ was right, tactically, you've got to help the goalie in how we play when you play into the six, when you drop it into the fullback, if you've got to go over the press. Um, this is normal. But your job is still to defend the goal, keep the ball out at all costs. That's that's your job. Um, but like I said, going into Rambo coming to the club, Russ spoke to him tactically in possession what he expects. I obviously done the the out of possession stuff with defending the goal, defending the area, defending the space. Um, and Aaron B and Aaron took took it in full stride. And unfortunately for for us, um, which didn't help, Rambo actually broke his finger, I think, against Wolves. Um, we lost him for about seven games, and during that spell, obviously Russell got sacked, unfortunately. Um, so I think if having Rambo would it help, of course, he's a top goalie. Um, but from a tactical point of view, um, took any stride, just did it, and he could do it.
SPEAKER_03And what what is it like as a goalie coach when you go through that transition? Because sometimes obviously goalie coaches move out with with the manager that departs, but you obviously stayed in place. Yeah, what what was that obviously within your your remit? But like, what was that like to go through that transition of going from a manager who you clearly absolutely love working for to then having someone new come into the building and you still having to adapt? Yeah, uh normal.
SPEAKER_01Um I've had managers that want to be more direct, I've wanna I've had managers that want to play possession-based style. Nothing changes for me, really. The only thing that changes is is is how they how they're on the ball in in terms of when they pass, how they pass. Your job still is to make saves, come for crosses, be ruthless in and around your box. Nothing's nothing's changed. Does do things change in the environment though? Um to a point, yeah. Um obviously that it goes in cycles. The the modern day goalkeeper now is a possession-based goalkeeper. That would that would change again. I I generally think when I was a YT, um there was a modern day goalkeeper then on the ball. I hated getting a goal having a goal kick and smashing it 70 yards 30, 40 times a game. Me being arrogant, I'd want the ball, and because I've generally thought I was good on the ball, that I'd want to play or clip one in. Um go back like Neuer, Neuer, they said like the modern-day goalkeeper, Noya's unbelievable off his line. Yeah, he's aggressive. But if you break it down, how many goals did he concede from being high? But it doesn't get doesn't get shown. Where if I'm I'll go back to English coaches, if an English coach plays out from the back, oh he's arrogant, and he concedes ah he's arrogant. No, no, he just the style of play. Um got him to the Premier League. If you'd have said to Russell Martin in five years worth of managing, you'd have um moved up the food chain from uh League One at MK to Championship to Premier League in five years. I'd say that's success for me. Success as a manager in five years' time. You had three different clubs where you've progressed and you've got to Premier League, and Russ, I think, was 39 as a manager. Um you'd have to ask him now what he'd he'll do moving forward. I I know what my beliefs are, he won't he won't defer from it because that's his that's his way. Um but the honest conversations me and Russ had on a daily basis about the goalkeeper or the goalkeepers, was it hard? Yeah, because I I challenged him and he challenged me, which is fine. That's that's part of football, that's part of coaching, that's part of winning. Um was some was it sometimes hard? Yeah, because I might have wanted them to go a little bit more direct in in different situations. Because, like you say, if you're waiting to play someone the ball into the sixth position, for example, and he doesn't move, they never blame the six, they blame the goalie. Yeah, okay, so yeah, it's it's tough, but it's like anything. When you concede a goal, it's always the goalie's fault until you break it down. Oh, I'm actually like you can't come for this way, yeah, you got a nick. You have it as every club here has a goalkeeper coach. That normally a goal goes in, whoever manager ore coach turns around and looks at the goalie coach. Oh it's my fault. But the defenders not have sorry, sorry. That's normal, it's not every goal that goes in straight away, and that's where you learn as a goalie coach. Um, and you and like I said, when you I said to you going back earlier, I took it really hard, like a loss, probably because like you're getting battered on the side from wherever the manager is because the goal's gone in, uh you learn to adapt from it, don't you?
SPEAKER_00It's not the manager's fault, is it? No.
SPEAKER_01So I still think it's the hardest position to play. And again, have us chats on daily basis with coaches. It's if it was easy, everyone would do it. We we can't make mistakes. Uh centre football can have 10 chances, miss nine, score one as a hero. We concede a bad goal, but make 10 saves, we lose one nil, goalie's full.
SPEAKER_03But what what go deeper? Why why is it the hardest position in your opinion?
SPEAKER_01You can't make an error. You make an error, it's in your net. Defender makes an error, we can get him out of trouble. If fielder makes an error, defender and goalie gets made. Striker do what they want. Striker score goal, legends. Do you know what I mean? So could have 10 shots, miss a target, but score one, they're unreal. Goalies, make 10 saves, concede one, should have lost one nil, game over. Goalie's fault. So yeah. As you can tell, I'm a little bit bitter we're talking about coming.
SPEAKER_04It's a little bit like we messaged him bitch at the weekend. Oh yeah. So he's had a worldly game in the last minute. He's never said about it, he's come for a cross, got under it 99th minute. Skin. Yeah. Got man in the match as well. He's like my fault.
SPEAKER_01Got life for a goalkeeper. That's literally what he texted you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Resilient.
SPEAKER_04It's like, yeah, he was like, okay, the same thing. I was like, right, what do you go into the go into the feedback of it, not the judgment? And I know listen, he's led, he will learn from it and be like, right, that will make in the long run, that will make me better, make me a better goalkeeper. Yeah, it's shit. It is shit. And then at the end he's just laughing about it. It's like, why did we do it? The goalkeeper, eh? Why do we do it?
SPEAKER_03Are we are we crazy as goalkeeping coaches, goalkeepers, people in football? Like, are we crazy for playing in goal? Yes.
SPEAKER_01100%. Why? Uh, I think you've got to be a bit mad to be a goalie or be a goalie coach. Um you've got to be resilient, as we speak about a lot. Um, you've got to have thick skin. Um, you've got to understand that you're probably never ever gonna be a winner in the aspect of football. You're never gonna get, apart from maybe penalty shootouts where you're the hero, you're never gonna be the hero. You can, like I said, you can make 10 saves, you you make an error for one, it's a goal. Um, you're never gonna get as paid as much as the centre forwards or outfield players, really. Um, so yeah, you have to be a little bit mad, and like some some people say, like, how do you uh like one-on-one and they smash it at you from two yards? Why do you like doing that? I just you just do like yeah, I love it. Like when I see, like we had a we were done a shooting drill last week, and one of the lads hit one from about five yards, smashed it straight at one of the lads' faces, and he turned around to me and went, Why would you ever want to go and go? And I went, It's brilliant. And the lad was buzzing, he's like, But you just took him one in the face from five yards, and I looked at the guy and went, You're right. Yeah, I went, there you go. And he's like, Nah, forget that. I'm not doing that.
SPEAKER_04You don't mind taking one in the face, just taking one in the nuts. Yeah, it's not great. You know what?
SPEAKER_03I played a game at Wickham. You know, we used to train at Bisham Abbey, we used to have the games there on the Sunday. Played in this game against South End. I was like under four teams on the 13s, something. I took two in the same game in the nuts. I remember getting in the car afterwards. My dad said to me, 'Are you alright?' I said, Dad, this is gonna sound weird, but I really enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_01I do think it's it's built in you though, as you're born because like scoring a goal, I'm not saying I scored lots of goals in my career. Um, I generally couldn't care about hitting the back of the net. If someone went in for a 50-50 tackle, I'd actually get more pleasure smashing someone than bending the bracket. I I don't know why, and I think that's why you're you're either born like defended minded or attacking minded. Like, I I couldn't care scoring a goal, I really couldn't. But if you know you're coming for a block and you you end up taking the ball and you're smashing the lad, I'm buzzing by that. I think that's brilliant. But that's the thing where the goalkeeper's mindset, isn't it?
SPEAKER_04You I'm smiling my way through here because I used to love it, used to love it. Like five, yeah, putting back five goals out and then the one day, it's now a different type of block.
SPEAKER_01How many go with their hands to straight a striker's feet? They very rarely do they that they wait now and try and get hit.
SPEAKER_03That's because the strikers always leave their foot in trouble.
SPEAKER_01We don't know what they think and they treat them, yeah. But the game game evolves and games changes. But yeah, um, yeah, I love diving at striker's feet and just take him on the chest or a head or wherever.
SPEAKER_03That's me. What was it? So you worked with Rambo at at Southampton. You also worked with Julio Cesar and Rob Green, two international goalkeepers of elite in their own mind. Rob played for England, Julio's played for for Brazil.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Rambo's part of that new generation. Yeah. Julio and was probably that hybrid, and Rob's probably more of that old school generation. What were the what were the lessons that you learned from working with with Rob and Julio at QPR?
SPEAKER_01Uh what was a lesson I learned? Um obviously two two very good goalkeepers, um, or two exceptional goalkeepers in their day. Um, what did I learn? Um Rob Green was similar to Rama in terms of mentality. Um done everything he could on and off the pitch. Um had a obviously had a bit of a version in his career, especially his England career. Um but stuck to stuck to his guns, stuck to his beliefs. Um I found that when when you need to make that save, they made it. That makes sense. So Rob and Julio were at the club at the same time, but two completely different goalies. Rob was really solid in and around him, strong, aggressive, powerful, to a point of like he'd want to come for crosses, want to get hit, brave, where Julio was more laid back and calm. Um obviously Julio was towards more the end, I think it was 34, 35 when it comes to QPR. Um but brought a confidence arrogance about himself, just the way he conducted himself. Where um I think the English goalkeepers then you knew when you were having a tough time. Uh, I'm not just talking about Robin, talking about English goals in general, where we would find it harder to shrug off. Julio Brazilian born goalkeeper was yeah, it's happened, it's done. And he could really park something really quick, or he didn't care. I don't know which one it was. Um, but Julio would do stuff in training where you go, like, that's incredible. Like, I remember him done he'd done one session with uh with Kevin Hitchcock, and he it was two poles and uh a bit of uh bit of tape. So like English coaches don't tend to use much equipment, really. Um Julio wanted to do this this exercise where uh Hitchie had two poles, yard and a half inside the post. Tape was probably mid-height, um, and he wanted Hitchy to hit in the other corner from 12 yards, and all Julio would do is take one step and he would literally like five fly five, six yards. He could get there at 34. And I remember we actually had the Academy boys with him, and I said, Come on, let's let's try it as well. The goalies won't even get to like the middle of the goal, and I'm like, he's 34. How long how long has he been doing this? Um, where Rob did it, and similar to the other goal, I got like halfway, but then like in training, you're serving Rob, everything's stuck. You serve Julio, like even Volley, he'd parry it, and you're like, What are we doing? He's like, I'm never gonna catch it in a game. I'm like, right? But like when I say parry, like there's parrying and it drops it, he could parry to halfway line, but he's done that his his whole life, and that's where as a I think I'd have been about 26, 27, that's where I see like a different style of goalkeeping, which I've never had before. And you talk about like where you were as a yeah, like maybe a little bit arrogant. No, this is the only way you can do it. Because I wasn't taking the session, I could step back and look at at Hitchy that was taking it and going, like, this is really weird. Because I know that Hitchy does very similar sessions on a daily and weekly basis, and obviously worked with Rob Green before, so Rob knew exactly what was coming, but Julio didn't, but was like, you need you literally need like 10 balls for like a volleying session because he wouldn't not catch the ball, but he'd make that big save when needed. Same as Rob. Like, I I do think Rob was um, especially towards the end after obviously the incident with England, was it the Euros?
Why Goalkeeping Is The Hardest Job
SPEAKER_01Was it World Cup? World Cup. Was it World Cup? World Cup against America, yeah. World Cup. Like obviously the the social media and stuff like that wasn't as big then, but it was getting to a point where he was getting grief on a on a daily basis after that. But to see him every day and see how good he was, where if you speak to people now, I would reckon it literally still would be a 50%. What do you think of Rob Green? Oh, he was great, goal. Oh, weren't very good. Rob Green was unbelievable. Like seeing him every day was probably the probably the changing point for me, really, where I went, I wanted to be a first team goalkeeper coach. Because seeing seeing how he trained, seeing how he worked, and just seeing seeing these these top lads make top, top saves, you're thinking like, how the hell did you get to that? Well, how'd you do it? Um, and sometimes they couldn't even answer, they just it's just natural they did it. Um but yeah, working with them, even though they were different styles, I learned so much in that short period of time with with both of them, just how to how to manage a session, how to how to challenge the keepers through obviously Hitchy that was taking the the session at the time. Um but yeah, going back to the the question, how different Rambo to them now. Um I would say from uh how the games evolved and how the games changed, going back to sports science, stuff like that. Um, I would say probably a lot more rounded as a goalie, can pretty much do everything where if you ask Rob and Hulu to to play and break lines, never gonna do it. And they don't and they wouldn't want to do it, which is fine. Um, where I think athletically Rambo's a lot more powerful, but obviously different different ages. How Rob was at 26, I can't tell you I never worked when I worked with him towards the end. But I I'd say you're now more rounded as a goalkeeper now, just because how much we use your feet where I think about obviously when I when I was a scholar 20 years ago, so Rob would have been probably early middle 20s, I'd have been like 16, 17. Like there wasn't sessions to to play in, and for like you've got a goal kick, it was yeah, get up and clear as far as your goal as you can. Uh that was that was goalkeeping. And if you look at how how Rob and Hulu defended their goal on their day, like top, you can't you can't not play for Brazil and win Champions Leagues, you can't not play for England and be okay. You're you're very good, you're very, very good. Um, but yeah, it was a pleasure to work with with Rob Moore. Obviously, I didn't work with Hulu as much, but working with Rob, like even now, I see him not so long ago last season, and he spoke about like how I was. Do you remember Jim when you come over and you're doing this, you're doing that? I remember trying sessions with Rob where like just a little bit of funny and like you're clipping it into a space and he's like, I'm not doing that, I'm never gonna do it in the game, it's why I'm not doing it. Okay, we'll change it.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, as a goalkeeper coach, seeing like parry and push it out, would you ever go, Well, you need to catch that? So, like, so for example, we some goalkeeper coach I spoke to like no, they're like, right, they're natural, the goalkeeper's naturally got their hands down, right? That's they've done that forever. And the goalkeeper coach goes, No, you need to get you need to get your hands up, you need to get your hands up. So if you see a goalkeeper, a volley comes in, just make sure I don't smash the mic. And he's and he's parrying it. Do you ever go, do you ever say you should be catching that? Or do you go, well, he's done that for so long, I'm not changing him. But if a younger goalkeeper come in, would you go, actually, you need to catch that?
SPEAKER_01I think this is where I've evolved as a coach, is everyone's different, uh, and you find the way for them to be uh affected the best. So, of course, there are times where I can say, listen, I think you can hold that. Um, but what I would say is as you're especially young ones as you're coming through to first team football, um, rather than just be a habit of parrying, when you get to the top level, if you parry, you're then defending a set piece. So it's alright, getting away with it and just making a save. But the the bigger picture is well, you're now defending a set piece, they're on the attack still. Where if you're if you're making, if you're an older goalkeeper and you're making a parry and it's going, obviously, a foreign goalie comes in, you parry and it goes miles, then obviously they're they're very good at it. Um so you'd always say, look, I think maybe you can try this or do that. Um, but again, it's it's finding that that goalkeeper. It's when they come in at different ages, at different levels, at different times of their career. Of course, there's only a certain amount of time you can say, look, I think you should do better or you can hold it. Um, but I think it's it's finding that balance where I never did because I was never taking the session, but I would never turn around to Hulu's side and say, You've got to catch that. That wasn't my job at the time. Um, would I now? Not sure in all that's a good question. Because if you're if you're doing your job at the end of the day, it's keeping out the net, then you're being effective. If you're parrying and there's always a rebound, then there's something we've got to work on. Um but I do think how I've evolved as the coaches, you're when I remember when you when I started, I was always told to the set position is that. So in my head, when you start as a coach, first time to go, and I'd have told you probably the same. You why aren't you setting like that? Well, actually, like every everyone's different. Like someone's six foot, someone's six foot six, you you set bigger, you set wider, you drop, you go higher. Like, it's finding it's finding that balance, and again, it's finding that again. Go back into the top goal is if you tell them maybe adjust by might be a yard, half a yard, or be be a little bit wider, be a little bit less, they work on it and they actually become really good at it because that's how they are. And it's finding that that that one percent where you go that makes a massive difference. Um, do we coach parrying enough? No. Do we catch catching enough? I think we over cat overdo it still, um, because we are fixated on just catch the ball, just catch the ball. You can't always catch it. And I think where if I were took my time back, say 10 years ago, working on parrying, if we parried it and it went to a good area, we all say great save. But when it's parried and it's dropped, we don't say, Well, you should have parried it here, or you could have done this, could have done that. We go, you should held it. So, can we coach parrying more? Yeah, but it's it's making that save and at the right time to go, look, it's parry, but it's gone X, Y, and Z. Um, but again, it's always it's hard to find that that that percent, isn't it, to make that that big save. Like now, how much the balls move should we coach? Should we keep teach parrying more? Maybe because people forget how much he's moved their light, any kind of movement. It's so hard to catch it in the conditions. Yeah, so should we teach parrying more with like who loaded at Brazil when he came through? Maybe because he you find he found a way of keeping the ball up the net. It's a good question.
SPEAKER_03The games change, doesn't it? The game keeps changing. I remember when you coached me at QPR, that was all about catching the ball and moving around the goal and making saves and trying to hold as much as you can. I think if I haven't seen you coach in in many, many years, I've coached it. Yeah, we're not gonna offer you a contract because you're not gonna reach the height. That wasn't the real reason. No, but in order to reason, though, like if I came and watched one of your sessions now, I can probably imagine that it's very, very different to what it was back in the day and how you might set things up. Or would you say that things are still fundamental?
SPEAKER_01I'd say I've I ever like I'm lucky the I can't remember how many clubs I've been at now, but I've worked with some some really good people, and I think where the games change as well, like you get to go to conferences, you get to meet people, like just having that year in the Premier League for me was brilliant because I got to speak with like uh Inaki and at Arsenal and people like that, and like I
Julio Cesar, Rob Green, And Styles
SPEAKER_01can I can I can text Inaki Navanito, I can text uh the Man City Goldie Coach or the Chelsea goalie, Ben Roberts at Chelsea or whoever it is now. Um I got that year of picking their brains for two minutes. Um and even for them to know my name was like I'm something real, like you know, you know my name. Um they probably said I'm shit, but even to get that two minutes from the guy, what do you see on this or how do you work on that? Um so yeah, that that year in the Premier League opened a lot of doors for me. But where you you go back to the the coaching side, you get to speak to people now. You see more. Like for we talk about social media. I I started my my goalkeeper place just purely on people texting me going, my boy plays for under 10's whoever grassroots team, he hasn't got a goalkeeper. Is it anything you can show? I'm like, I can, but like am I allowed for for one? So I just literally started putting sessions up with and then it's coming to little clips now of keepers making saves to see like what Aaron Ramsdow does, Alex McCart, whoever it is, making making saves. Um and that's why I think as a coach, when I first started, and again this is me and my ego, at 19, without doing any badges, my my way was the right way. Um because you always put yourself in what you did as a goalie into your coaching. So I got told to block by coming out with my hands first. If I if I'd have seen someone do like a spread with his feet, I know for a fact I'm going, just go your hands, but stop doing that shit. Um where now there's a place with when one on one gets messy and he thinks it over, you might not be able to go with your hands because you're not quick enough, you might have to stand big and block and get as close down the line as you can. Um you evaluate what you do on a daily basis. I think where where I learned a lot was again going to first team because you have analysis boys now where they can get you everything like that. I watched every goal we concede every year. So they every goal we concede the end of the season, they'll send me everything. And if you're keep conceding the same goals with different goalies, you're doing something wrong. Um, the same as if they're making saves, um, but you don't work on the next part of how we progress that to be even better, um, you're doing something wrong. So there's more technology now, there's more social media. You get to see with people where the goalkeeper unions are lot different to outfield coaches. It's not a closed book, where I think the outfield coaches, they were nowhere near be as open to have a discussion where the goalkeeper coach, like I say, you can ring whoever it is and go, look, I've I've tried this, I've tried that. I've I've rang goalkeepers, uh, goalkeeper coaches when we got promoted to the Premier League. And um I've said to them, like, I'm 37, I'd have been there, 38, 37. Um not what do I do, but how how how do I handle it? How do I do this? How do I do that? Uh, and people like Tony Parks, people like Ben Roberts, Tony Roberts, um, all these kinds of people just just give me open advice and say, look, um what do you think on this? And could you have tried that? Um, and that's where I think the goalkeeper coaches are. We are different, we are unique. You want to sit together as much as you can. Obviously, you play against each other, it's tough. But um I think for me as a 19-year-old, as I coached, it was one way, and that was the highway. Now, more open, um learned lessons, harsh lessons. Um, but being being honest is the one for me with your players and then being honest back. I think I've um I'd like to say I've improved and I've changed to a point from where I am now in the 19 years I've been coaching. I hope.
SPEAKER_03I love it. And obviously, Dean Thornton Goalkeeping Academy, you've been doing loads of stuff on social media. I've seen the clips from the training ground at Southampton when you're working with Rambo and Alex, and I think yeah, Gab as well back at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Gab was yeah, Gab was obviously unfortunate he got an injury, but Gab was another pleasure to work with on a daily basis. But yeah, so I started my my academies about five years ago. Um, again, just to help grassroots coaching, really, that they don't they're not lucky enough to have to have goalkeeper coaches. So I I set up one in Maidenhead, one in Redding, and one in Swansea. Uh the Swansea one stopped, but it's gonna get going. Obviously, for my time there, I had two years at Swansea, so I set up something there. Um looking to to revamp it, really, in all honesty. Um, sort of dwindled a bit. Obviously, when I I got a move to Swansea, obviously it's miles away from Brendan Maidenhead. Uh so I was relying on my coaches to to keep that going. And then obviously, when I got a move to Southampton, couldn't keep my eye on it as much because obviously you're throwing yourself into the into the Premier League. Um, but now it now I'm back local-ish. Um, want to revamp it, always looking to build, always looking for coaches, always looking for centres to to continue uh helping goalies from grassroots all the way up to to first team. Um, and in the football industry, you might not be there for too long, so I'm always looking for another business. So have to keep that there just in case, because you know you're gonna get sacked at some point. Um, but yeah, looking to build it um and trying to help goalkeepers from all uh ages and all uh abilities.
SPEAKER_04Last one to wrap up. So you're at Millwall now. What's your hopes for the future doing pretty well this season? What's the hopes for the future? For Millwall for me.
SPEAKER_01For you and for I think this year in the championship, it's the most open championship I've ever seen. Uh I think after last night, I think we're now fifth or sixth, I'm not sure, but we're in the playoffs. We've got a little bit of a cushion. I say a cushion, it's five points, it's nothing in the championship. Um, but I think this year is a year where um you might see teams that are maybe not expected to be in a playoff final or in a semi-final. Um, I think this is a good year for for the club. Like I said, there's probably it's probably about 14 teams that could end up in the playoffs. Um, so it is so so tight. Um, of course, I want to be in the in the playoff final again if we can do it. It's the best thing ever, apart from maybe having kids. Uh it's best to have your life winning that. Great case, I had to go watch it. Yeah, winning the playoff final. I can't express you how like I felt it was incredible. But for Millwall and for me, I want to be in the Premier League for sure. Uh, I know Mill as a club would love to be in the Premier League. Um, yeah, that's my that's my plans, is to uh hopefully be in amongst it at the end of the season. Uh and then for me, long term is be back in the Premier League, whether it's a Mill or or or wherever. Um you always want to challenge yourself. You always want to go up against I'm gonna say Everton first because it's a big club, because I love them. Always want to go up against Everton, your Chelsea's, Man United, Cities, Liverpool's. Um, because you you want to be at the highest level, don't you, at the end of the day. Um, so yeah, that's that's where I am at right now. And hopefully I will get back in the Premier League again one day. If not, and I've had my one year, I loved every minute of it. Um, really fortunate to be at that level, and some people never get to that level, some people never get to to play at Wembley and win a player final. So if my coaching career finished tomorrow, I'd be really happy. Um 38, 39, managed at Premier League Championship League, one League Two, won at Wembley, worked with some of the keepers I've I've worked with already, internationals and uh and local goalkeepers. But my career finished tomorrow. Um, I think I can say I'm I might have done better than I'd probably expected. Very lucky. Yeah. Yeah, very lucky. Very lucky.
SPEAKER_04So much luck. And in the future, we hope you get lucky again. I hope so. Not that you need it. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.