Beyond The Box: Goalkeeping’s Untold Mindset, Mistakes and Madness
The mindset. The mistakes. The madness. This is football’s last line of defence - unfiltered. From iconic saves to brutal setbacks, Beyond the Box ® dives into the stories goalkeepers rarely tell, and no one else dares to.
Beyond The Box: Goalkeeping’s Untold Mindset, Mistakes and Madness
Ashley “Bayzo” Bayes: Why Most Goalkeepers Plateau - Inside the Psychological & Coaching Blueprint That Turns Good Keepers Into Great Ones
One of England’s most respected goalkeeper coaches joins us for a brutally honest, emotional, and inspirational deep dive into the art of goalkeeping and coaching.
Ashley “Bayzo” Bayes reflects on his 600-game career, his journey into coaching, and what it really takes to turn a good goalkeeper into an excellent one.
In this episode, Bayzo breaks down confidence, mistakes, mindset, trust, coaching relationships, competition, and his famous “monster mentality.” From Wimbledon promotions at Wembley to mentoring young keepers like Nathan Bishop, Owen Goodman, and Spike, this is a masterclass for anyone who loves goalkeeping, coaching, or personal development.
Whether you’re a goalkeeper, a coach, or someone who loves the mindset side of football, this episode is packed with insight, emotion, and real experience from 30+ years in the game.
Today we are joined by one of England's most respected goalkeeping coaches. I love a challenge. I love getting hold of a young goalkeeper and make them from a good goalkeeper to an excellent goalkeeper.
SPEAKER_00:He's also had an unbelievable playing career as well and he's worked with a lot of the OneGlove pro cohort.
SPEAKER_02:I genuinely don't know what else I'm good at. I don't know what I don't even want to think about it to be honest. Emotion, get emotion, yeah. It is none other than Ashley Bays. What's the dream for you? Get as high as I can as a top-level goalkeeping coach. What's gonna stop you? Nothing.
SPEAKER_00:Azo, welcome to the show, mate. You're right. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to it. Buzzing, man. We're buzzing to have you on because every guest that we've had who's worked with you so far has come on and basically just sung your praises. So, first question I want to kick off with how much are you paying them? What what what is it about working with Bezo? Uh that's so special. Well, wow.
SPEAKER_02:That's for them to say that. That's for other people to say that. What I do do, I I enjoy what I do, I love what I do, passionate about it. Um, I love forward to going in every day. I love a challenge, I love getting hold of a young goalkeeper and trying to develop them and make them from a good goalkeeper to an excellent goalkeeper. But I just I just love what I do, everything about goalkeeping, from the coaching side of it, uh, even down to the equipment, the gloves, every little bit of detail. I just love what I do. I've done it for 30 years. I did it as a player, and now continuing as a coach, and I just want to be the best I can be at what I do.
SPEAKER_00:So you started off your career as a player, as a goalkeeper, trying to be the best version of yourself, and that's kind of bled into your coaching.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Tell us about your playing career. A few clubs in there, isn't there? 593 appearances, I think it is. You're short of 600, I think it is.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I thought Jesus Christ, there is a few clubs.
SPEAKER_02:I never uh yeah, started at Brentford as a young, young, uh, young, young sort of scholar, and then went into to be a pro there. I I think I had six years there, made me debut at 17. I was there till I was 21, I think. Um I sort of was the I've worked with some good goalkeepers there in the form of um Tony Parks, Graham Benstead, uh Perry Sucklin, like goalkeepers that came in on loan as well. So obviously, when you're there, you're seen as the young goalkeeper, aren't you? So I saw loan goalkeepers coming in, I was getting cup games and all that. Um, but learning, learning all the time. And um, I got to about 21. I was I was sort of getting itchy feet then, had had a few games, and uh I got the opportunity to move on. Um, I could have probably stayed there, but I've always been seen as the youngster coming through, uh, be the number two at the time. Um, but I needed to play, I needed to find my own career, and uh I ended up going to Torquay and I had three years there and then uh moved on to Exeter. Um, had good three years there working under a former goalkeeper in Peter Fox, um, which was uh a good education for me at a fairly young age still. And then I come to the end of my um three years there and I uh I moved to Leighton Orient. Again, had three good years there. Um moved out to Ireland for a year with Bohemians, another good experience. Um, but for family reasons and and whatnot, I I came back and I um I ended up at Woking, um, had 18 months there, and then I floated around sort of the non-league with uh Hornchurch, Grays, uh, went to Crawley um and then ended up at Stevenage and had a good three years thin there. Um and then sort of why I was sort of Stevenage, I was I was dipping into the coaching at a fairly young age when I was playing, I was uh sort of doing uh my own things one-on-ones and and bits and pieces working for local grassroots teams and that, which I really enjoyed. And then um I got the opportunity to go into older shot as first team goalkeeping coach. Um, it was sort of a part-time role there under Dean Oldsworth, but um I still wanted to play. I was only, I think I was 40 at the time. I think 40, I was 39, 40, I think. So what I did was not that I lived in the area, I um I coached for oldershot every day, and then I ended up signing for Basingstone at the Conference South. Down the road. Down the road, so it worked. And I worked with a good friend of mine who was my goalkeeping coach, but also my mentor um in a friend called Colin Barnes. So I learned a lot off him. He mentored me on my coaching, but also kept my career going for probably another five years. So I ended up um there till 42, and then um I got the call from Wimbledon, and then I'm still here now working at Wimbledon. I went in there as player coach to be fair, but it was more number two, number three. But I thought I still could play. Um, so yeah, that was uh that was it. So I think Neil Hardy gave me the call and they wanted a full-time goalie coach, but obviously, budget-wise and that, it they wanted a jaw roll, so I was well up for that. But I was like, I've I've got to be honest, I found it difficult to start with as a number two stroke three, but also like coaching because I felt the goalkeepers I was working with at the time, I was competing with them. And then once I came away from the the playing and I I called it a day, I uh I felt that I became a better goalkeeping coach. So I saw the game differently. Um, I saw things differently, I didn't get as emotional. Um, it I didn't take it as personal. Don't get me wrong, it hurt if they made a mistake or we lost, but I could digest it better. So uh yeah, um I don't think I missed the club there, have I? I think about nine clubs. Um, but this is the longest I've been at a club. When but I'm into my 13th season now. So and I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I've had some good goalkeepers along the way who we'll obviously talk about. Um, yeah, I love it. Love, love who I'm working with in Johnny Jackson and the staff, and uh yeah, long may it continue.
SPEAKER_03:So you said you've been there, is it 13 years?
SPEAKER_02:I'm into my 13th year.
SPEAKER_03:What level were when wouldn't that when you went there? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:When I first went, yeah, League Two. They'd just stayed up the year before. Um, so yeah, League Two was there when in 2013 I went there. 2016 was when we got promoted at Wembley, um, which was a fantastic achievement. Um, to experience that as a coach for the first time was just like if you can ever witness or experience getting promoted, it's through the playoffs. If you can guarantee you're gonna get promoted, it's like some way to go up. And then obviously last year we done it again, which is like it's just unbelievable. Play playoffs, final win promoted is the it's unbelievable. I can't explain it. It's unreal. You left out box park, yeah. The after pies always help as well. But yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Next question for you. So you've been at Wimbledon 13 years now, and this is what KP said earlier. So I can't take credit for this. Great question from KP. Maybe you should ask it. Go on, go on, you ask it.
SPEAKER_00:I was curious to know. So, like, whenever I've been in at clubs, whenever a manager goes, the whole staff tends to go with him, sometimes even the medical department. But you've been through a few eras of managers at Wimbledon, and you've remained in place. So I want to know why you think that is.
SPEAKER_02:I'll tell you what I've learned. So, all the managers I've worked with, I've took something wrong from them. Um, I've and I'm I can adapt. And but when I when I when I first started, so I mean it was with Neil Hardley for seven years. So I learned a lot from him. Uh first role as a full-time goalkeeping coach. Um, so I learned a lot of him. And then when the managers started changing, um, I had to learn to adapt to what style they wanted, what they wanted from their goalkeepers, the demand that they wanted from their goalkeepers. And uh I thought I felt that it made me a better coach. So uh the answer to your question is I I believe in myself, I trust in what I do, and I give my goalkeepers everything. So, and I'm I'm very, I'm not just a goalie coach. I I can be everything the manager wants me to be. And that's that's what I'd probably say uh regarding that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's amazing though, because part of your playing career, you were still coaching, weren't you? So you were doing the the stuff at Aldershot, but you're also playing at Basingstoke in non-league. So do you think that mindset of being the best version of a coach that you can be and also developing the human being behind the goalkeeper comes from that hybrid time of when you were coaching the coach?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Um, because when you're a player, you in a selfish way, you just think about yourself. So when you're doing player coaching, so I'm having to manage numbers, manage, manage sessions, also concentrate on playing. But I I had the beauty of doing that, but then escaping that and then going and playing. So I hired the best of both worlds at that time for two years, which I thoroughly enjoyed. And I I spoke to I spoke to Barnesy at the time about it because he knew me anyway, and I said, I don't know where I can stop playing. At whatever level it is, I've still got that hunger to play. So I he said, Well, Basing Stoke are looking for a goalie. If you're going in, I said to him, I've got the chance of going in at older shot. And uh he went, why don't you come down here and play? So I used to, so I used to do the coaching at Older Shot, and then I'd go in there once, once a week with Barnesy, switch off on the coaching, but tick over at Older Shot. So it was like, it was like it was a good, it was a good, it was a good grounding for me to be fair. But um, yeah, so yeah, that's good. I enjoyed, I enjoyed it at the time. It was a good good grounding. Um, but when when you stop playing, you do for me, I I I felt, well, you do, you you become a better coach because you've got you you it's not just about yourself anymore, it's about your group, your team, your staff, your manager, whatever they need, you've got to be on their back and call, basically. Um, but yeah, I'm very I'm very structured in what I do, very organized. Um and I love I just love everything about goalkeeping, as you probably can tell.
SPEAKER_03:So you said you're good at what you do. Here's the question why are you good at what you do?
SPEAKER_02:Um I give I I've I've got this theory of my goalkeepers. Every one of them we walk through the building, we have a conversation, and I expect um hard work, dedication, uh hunger, drive, because they'll get all that from me. They'll get honest conversations, they'll get the trust and the bond. And the the trust comes from the bond and the connection you have with them because I always say once I've got that bond and that connection with them, I can have the honest and open conversation with them. And they've got to be comfortable with that. And it might not be what they want to hear, but I've always trusted myself to make that connection and that bond. And that might be not be like just through coaching, that might be taking them away from the building. I had a I had a situation last year when he first came in with Owen Goodman. I took him away from the building, I had an honest conversation with him, and he sort of he bought into it. And I I that's my biggest thing. I try and get the goalkeepers to buy in to my methods, the way I work, they'll get everything from me. I just ask for it back. And that's that's in everything they do from the minute they walk in the building to the minute they leave, game day, etc.
SPEAKER_03:Some of what makes a great coach, right? Relationships, it's uh it's a two-way process. I always think if I'm working with someone, as you know, work with Bish and stuff, I learn from them, they learn from me. It's a two-way process.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And it's about being vulnerable to. I think that vulnerability breeds vulnerability. So if you're vulnerable yourself, they be they become vulnerable too. So, how do you get that out of players? How do you build that trust? Because I've been listening, and you said you've got that confidence in yourself. Yeah. Or no, how did you get that confidence in yourself? Because that's what all goalkeepers want. They always say, I want go, I want confidence. How do you build confidence and how do you build that trust and that relationship with everyone?
SPEAKER_02:It's the first conversation you ever have with a goalkeeper. So I'll I'll let them know. So the the my I believe the biggest strength I've got is I played the game, I've stood in the tunnel, I've stood in the goal, and I've had that fear. There's not one situation that I haven't been through that they've gone through, whether it's high, whether it's low. What I try and say to them all the time is never get too high, never to get too low. Try and keep that happy medium. So building them, building the relationships, building the confidence comes from on and off the pitch, um, the commitment they see from me, but the sessions that I put on and deliver. I'm full of energy, I'm full of making them better. I want them to be better, I'll give them a challenge every single day. It might be one thing, it might be for argument's sake. I'll be doing uh a handling session that's like um 60 to 75 contacts at a ball. I don't expect them to drop a ball. And that's builds confidence. And they'll and they'll go, didn't drop a ball today. So that's that's an example sort of thing. Or it might be I'm doing a session and we'll finish with a little competition at the end. Don't let a ball in the net. It might be a small-sided game. I don't want to see the balls in the net, I want to see them on the outside. It's little things that build confidence. Don't ever see a ball in your net. Why do you why? You don't you don't want the ball going in your net, so why see a ball in your net? Does that make sense? Yeah. So um, but I I believe playing the game was a big thing. And that's not to say like coaches who haven't are not good goal coaches, by the way, because I've got good friends who are good goalkeeping coaches who didn't sort of play at a level but can deliver and and are very good with their goalkeepers. But I just think I've been in their situation. So I I think it helps.
SPEAKER_03:I massively agree. Experience, the experience of having it, you can you can relate, yeah, you can know how they feel, you know what it's like to be lonely when you've you're out of the team, when you've dropped form, when you've had that voice in your head going, don't cross it, don't cross it, don't cross it, or if you don't shoot, don't shoot, don't shoot. Yeah, we'll go through them times.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I and I've been there. But what I want to what I don't want them to do, I don't want them to be not able to talk to me. I say the phone's there, 24-7. You can call me, you can text me, you can have an open conversation with me. I want you to just be you every day. Give me everything you got on the training ground, everything in games. If you make a mistake, you make a mistake by being positive. You're human, it's gonna happen. It's how you recover from it, how you deal with it, how you move on from it. And I that's always my message is you know, and the and the and the good thing is, is I I've been at women a long time. I've got a manager now who trusts, trusts in what I do, trusts what I do with the goalkeepers in terms of what I do with them off the pitch, in terms of showing them opposition stuff, going into a game. He's a good manager who doesn't get on the goalie, he'll have good conversations with me. If he needs to talk to me, he'll talk to them. And and and again, that builds confidence. Because if a goalie sees that you've got a good relationship with your manager, it you know, I I don't think I've not had a relationship with the manager, but I don't think I could, I don't think I could work like that. Do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:So yeah. That's one question I wanted to ask you though, because everyone that I've spoken to that's worked with you, they always feel like they've got that almost like not fatherly connection, but that like relationship with you where they could go to you about anything. How do you then manage that relationship with the goalkeeper where you're that close with them, working with them day to day, helping them towards their goals? But you've also got some form of loyalty towards the manager. Like, how do you flirt that like that line?
SPEAKER_02:That that honest, honest conversation, trust. I had it with um Nick Zanev, who I had for eight years, and I had to tell him that we wouldn't be offering him a new contract and he's getting released. Can you imagine that after eight years of bringing him into the building? But because that relationship's there, that trust there, he understood it. You know? The man the man obviously the manager spoke to him and and and told him, but like I had a long conversation with him, and then I I pretty much keep in touch with all my goalkeepers. So, you know, it might be a text, it might be a phone call every now and then. But I I take a lot of pride from that that they all sort of keep in touch with me, pretty much most of them, to be honest. So, yeah, um that'd be that'd be my my answer to that, like on honesty, but that comes from the minute minute you get hold of them. So the minute they walk in the building, you've you've got to, and you you know when it you know when it's clicking because you you sort of know what they love in training, you know what they enjoy, you know the sessions they enjoy. Then you take them out of their comfort zone, right? Here's a challenge, I want to see how you cope with this. And they they they sort of buy into everything. And I'm not saying I'm like this superhuman goalkeeping coach that's like like I'm learning all the time. I'm I'm experienced, yes, I know what I'm doing, I trust in what I'm doing, I love talking about it, but I'm learning all the time. I want to I want to get better. Like just because I've been at Wimbledon 13 years doesn't mean I want to get to the very top. But if I could do it at Wimbledon, that's even better. But I love I love a challenge with a goalkeeper. It might be a young goalkeeper, it might be uh an experienced goalkeeper. The different goalkeepers I've had it's been for me as a as as a coach to learn is been fantastic. Like, and I wouldn't change it, I wouldn't change anything. I wouldn't change anything.
SPEAKER_03:You said before we start recording about projects, yeah, and I see us as the same as well. Love to work with players, and this is what I get from you. When they win, you win. You you love people doing well. It seems to me like you love people, you're a people person, yeah, massively. You love people doing well, same as us. Yeah, I cried at the playoff final where my mate got promoted. I love seeing people win. I know you you're the same, you love seeing people win. Is that what it is for you? It's not for me, it's not just about the goalkeeper. This is what I'm getting across. It's about I think the bigger thing is about the person.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I yeah, 100%. Yeah, love winning. But the the uh the the biggest thing is if you if you do your work through the week with your goalkeeper with the team, and then you see the stuff that you're working on and it comes out in a game, is it's the most satisfying thing as a coach you could uh imagine sort of thing. Um an example. So we'll talk Bish. So new goalkeeper in the building, changed him in a few things. Uh I won't give too much away because I don't want other teams to sort of, but like a little incident happened, uh, two incidents happened. The first game of the season, looting away. Um he comes for a cross, first half, back, back post. And I've been working on a lot of stuff, loading it up, loading the back post up. He executes it in the game after because he had a he had a situation where like he felt that he wasn't driving high and taking off and this, that, and the other. He does it. Then he has a save. These are just little incidences that so you then he'll have a he had a save in the second half that he makes to his left, and he said to me after last year I wouldn't have made that save. So I said, Why is that? He said, You've changed you've changed my position in my goal. So I I said to him the minute he walked in the building, like, I'm gonna get you, I've got to get you deeper in your goal because I think you will make more saves. You you sort of get too high and you go chasing the ball and you don't need to. This is goalkeeping terms now. This is these these are little things, like so. Like, I so I've been rehearsing it with him from pre-season and sort of it didn't happen overnight, but then I said to him, Well, there's the evidence. You're doing it in training, you're doing it in a game, brilliant. You've bought into what I've sort of expect from you.
SPEAKER_00:That's an example. There was another one though, as well, that went viral on uh on social media the the comeback scenario. The Barnsley game. The Barnsley game. And yeah, we spoke to Bish about that when he did his podcast, and he said you'd spend all week working on that, preparing for those scenarios. Because that's your work as a coach, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. So, so obviously I'll look at opposition sort of um Wednesday onwards, and then I'll rehearse sort of um their strengths, situations that might come up in a game on a Thursday, um, stroke Friday. It also like collaborates with what the team are doing as well, so it's not just like goalkeepers over in, as I used to call it, compost corner. My sessions flow in with the team, and that's a big thing for me. Like, you're not just isolated, so you work with the team. So we've done a lot of crossing and cutbacks and and stuff like that. But I'd already sort of rehearsed it with Bish and just giving him scenarios of what might happen in the game, and then when he makes the save, like he's like, after the game again, my first portal call is like, go over, we've won the game. You he's talking about the same and he's going through it. Like, and I went, but trust, trust what I'm showing you, trust what we're doing. There's the evidence, you know. So, yeah, it was some say, wasn't it? It was bloody hell.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, then a few weeks later, sorry, Bish. I love you. He made a couple of mistakes. Yeah, Bradford away, Bradford City, yeah. We talked about that, and then I was messaging him yesterday, and he said, one of your greatest strengths is your optimism after mistakes. What does he mean by that?
SPEAKER_02:So, so you're talking about the Bradford, the two goals, the missed punch and the uh where he sweeps up behind and he and he hits it against um our player and then it goes and they score from it. And uh I said to him after the game, and he's like, I said, don't worry about it, you're gonna make mistakes, learn from it, review it, we go again. Next game's the biggest thing for me. So don't dwell on it too much. He was he was gutted, he was gutted. But it's it this is the first time he'd sort of made a mistake and it it cost us the game. Uh, he was open to that. Um, but again, you know, that's my job is to pick him up, be disappointed, learn from it, and then when you come in on Monday morning, I want you, I want you at it again. And he was brilliant all week, went into the next game, responded. Oh, there you go. All right, you've got to be able to deal. This is what I'm saying. So he's got to be able to deal with the difficult con it's not a difficult conversation. He it was uh it was the first time I've gone right. He's made he's made a couple of errors. I'm gonna see how he see how he uh he reacts through the week and he he reacted in the way that I I expected him to, but he he was he was good and then he he went into the next game and it was it was really good. So his his mentality for me was really good. It wasn't dwell on it all week, dwell on it all week. My biggest thing was when you come in Monday, Tuesday, I spoke to him about it. I said, I'll rehearse it, but you won't know we were rehearsing it on the the on the through the week. And um, I gave him a couple of sessions early part of the week that I knew he'd enjoy, got him bubbling again, could see his shoulders back again, and then put him in and exposed him into them situations on the Thursday, and he he coped fine with it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think he dealt with that really well because I spoke to him afterwards, so previous Pish probably wouldn't have dealt with it so well when I said how you doing that mistakes. He's like, Yeah, fine, it's great. And I think you've had a massive part part of that because as a goalkeeper coach, you're not just a goalkeeper coach, you are a psychologist. You're a mentor, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And and and I've I've learned that where I've worked with some really young goalkeepers who who I've had on loan, and you you've you've got a you've got to be, like you say, that father figure, psychologist, mentor, what whatever you want to call it. Um, but they've they've got to be able to rely on me as well at any moment. And that's the relationship I built up with along with my other goalies, but like Bish, I've built a relationship now where he he knows he can call me at any time. He knows if I sort of open him up a bit, it's to make him better and challenge him. I'll test him at times, I'll test him at times, along with Macca, who's our other goalkeeper. I'll test him at times. I want him to challenge Bish, Bish to challenge Maca. I might set something up that I know that he might go, hold on a minute, sort of thing, to get the best out of him in training. Because I want that competition, I want that environment where they're pushing and challenging. No one's comfortable. The minute you get comfortable, we're in a we're not in a good place. So that's that again, that's the role I've got to play. That's that's my job to do that, to create that, stimulate them every day. It might be one thing I change in a session, but but this that's that's what I feel I'm good at.
SPEAKER_03:What do you think a goalkeeper coach's main role is? So for what's your main role with players coming in? What do you think that is? What makes a great goalkeeper coach?
SPEAKER_02:Um coaching the goalkeeper to be able to play the way the team needs him playing. So distribution is massive, so continued repetition, even if you're good at it and you're excellent at it, be better even better at it. Don't just think, oh, you're good at that part of your game. This is an example. Don't think because you're good at that part of your game, you you neglect it, you don't. So um, answer to your question I'd be making sure that when the manager asks me about my goalkeeper, I've coached him, I've I've um I've shown him, I've rehearsed everything, um sort of thing.
SPEAKER_03:Was that what was your question again? What makes a great goalkeeper coach? What's your what's your role?
SPEAKER_02:What's my role? Yeah, so that that would be am I am I coaching my goalkeeper to be to play his role within the team? Yes, I am, absolutely. If I wasn't, I think I'd get told.
SPEAKER_03:How do you has nothing yet?
SPEAKER_04:No, no.
SPEAKER_03:How do you get over mistakes? What's the best way to get over mistakes? Because these are the common questions that we get in stuff. It's like we want more confidence, I want to be able to get over mistakes because mistakes they eat me up. I play it over and over again. With my with my goalkeeper. How do you yeah, how do you train them to build confidence, get over mistakes?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so um D, I'll always have a DB from a goalie uh on a Sunday, just to make sure they're all right mentally and physically, first and foremost. Then a brief conversation about the game. Uh what do you think went right? What could you do better? Uh, etc. etc. And then um come in Monday morning or Tuesday morning, um, clip the game, go through that with him for 10, no more than 10 minutes because their attention span will go elsewhere. Get his thoughts, doesn't always have to be driven from me. So I might have an individual meeting with, say, Bish, but I also might include Maca, depending on what I'm working on. And then um, and then anything that's sort of gone through uh through the game, I'll sort of try and adapt the sessions in around what I think he might need to want to work on. But I'll always I'll always open it up to the goalies and go, right, this is the plan for the week, what we're gonna do, anything you want to add, anything you want to work on in particular, sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00:So, how do you how do you keep all the goalkeepers engaged then? Because obviously, like for example, Bish is playing at the moment, he's established number one, but you've got Maca behind who's pushing him and trying to get into the team naturally. That's the nature of goalkeeping. When you're in that situation, how do you keep all the goalkeepers stimulated besides mixing up training? How do you keep them stimulated off the pitch as well?
SPEAKER_02:So, so it being a number one in playing week in, wink out is is is I would say easier, it's easier to manage. So um Maca is he's a very I am Maka five or six years ago when he was a youngster coming through. Um he went away, he's gone and played a load of games, had the opportunity to bring him in in a summer, but I had to explain to him the role will be different. He bought into it, he was he was well up for it. He's come back, he's like different, he's like a different person. He's got married, he's got a young child now. Um he's very open in terms of I'll say to him, so I won't just speak. So this is my goalkeepers now, by the way. But I've done it with all the goalies I've got. Some might like it, some might not. You you get that feel of, do you want to be peppered with like and I said to Bish sort of thing is if it's too much for you, I'm constantly thinking all the time, but I also know you've got a family, you need family time, you need to switch off, get it out of the way Sunday, and then we move on. And then so going back to Macca, I will do the same with Maca, but it'll be a different conversation. Obviously, he hasn't played. How are you? Is there anything you want to do on Monday stroke, Tuesday? I'll call it my top up session. So I I sort of give Maca stuff on a Monday if he hasn't played that I know he likes, and it and it, and I'll go, is that and I and it goes from there, really. See, make make them feel just as important as a number one. I don't like going number ones, number twos, but that that's the terminology. Of it. They could both play. They could quite easily both play. Um, but sort of keeping them, keeping Maca like I know what Maca likes in training. Maca's pretty laid back, he's pretty calm. I could go, we're gonna do the no problem. No, tell me what you want to do, sort of thing. But he, you know, I'm always open. It's not but it's not about me, it's about them. What what do you feel you need to keep you on top if you've got to step in at any time?
SPEAKER_00:Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. And like it's amazing because like you don't even realize that you're doing this, but there's three things that make a great coach-athlete relationship from like the science and stuff. So number one is closeness, so having an unbelievable relationship and understanding the goalkeeper beyond the pitch, which you do, you have those conversations, you take them away from the training ground. The second one's being complementary. So like I've spoken to loads of goalies that you've worked with, like phrases like keep us on top, for example, during the shooting drills. Yeah, KOT, we're gonna talk about that. And oosh. Yeah, ooh. And and finally, committed, like, regardless of who's playing, it seems to me like you've got a plan for everyone in the back of your mind. Like, you can tell us if we brought up any situation, you could probably tell us about the goal they conceded, how they felt afterwards, the conversation you had afterwards.
SPEAKER_02:But this this goes back to this is go this. I always go back to like I I can put myself in that situation. You're going about Bishop Bradford. I've been in that situation, mate. I've been in there when I've let eight goals in. I wanted the whole world to swallow me up, mate. Didn't know where to look, I didn't have a goalie coach at then. So I want to be able, I want him to be able to, him and Macca, or any of my goalies, to to be able to lean on me. Like, oh, what do you think? Like, but but also say, you've got to do better there. If you need to be told, but that's where the trust and the honesty and that bond comes. So when you've got to have that conversation, go, you've got to do better there. Or he might say to me, he might be hypercritical and say to me, like, I think I should do better there for that goal. And I'll go, go on then, explain to me. So we'll get the clips up on the screen, and I'll wait, yeah, I'm not always right. They might bring something up and I like it. I like it. So they challenge me as much as I challenge them. That's where the connection comes.
SPEAKER_03:See, for me, I've just written this down to remind me, is it's the balance between support and accountability. Absolutely, yeah. That's the balance. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Powerful. Yeah. Yeah, that's so that is that's powerful, Rob. That very and and you gotta get that balance right. So, so I'm all I'm all for I'm smiling every day. I love what I do. So there won't be a day. The day I come in, I'm not smiling, it'll be the daylight. I've got to call it a day, which ain't any time soon. But you've you've also got to have a line of when there's seriousness is is there, and and you know, I'm all for banter, all for enjoying it. There's a time, there's a place, but there's a time when you've got to get your knot on it. Like, and and but I drive that a lot.
SPEAKER_03:The other thing I've noticed is you're very much into your coaching, you're asking for feedback, you're not telling. So, so I always say the difference, there's a difference between mentoring and coaching. Mentoring is sometimes telling people this is what you need to do. What you're doing is your coaching is by asking them for their own feedback because it's more powerful. I've noticed you're always asking questions. One of your key skills seems like you ask really good questions.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because I want them, I want them to, I want them to, it don't want it's not about me, it's about them. I might, I've got, I've got, I've got my theory and what what I'm what's expected of them, what they got to do, but I'll go like I'll take them out of their comfort zone at times and I'll go, how do you feel about that? Like, like again, I know we're talking about Bis because he's my goalkeeper now, but there's a there's quite a bit of stuff that I've done with him, and I proper took him out of his comfort zone. And like, but I underneath, I'm buzzing, I'm going home, I can't help it. Like, and I'll text him and go, mate, I've just watched because I'm on the train, I travel on the train, so I'm like, I'll be watching the session back on like on me, because I get it droned. Every session's filmed, and I like, I said, mate, you've got to have a look at this clip. And it's just little things, people wouldn't know that. But you know what I mean? And and like I'm saying, mate, look, you've got to have a look at this. I've took your proper out your comfort zone, your crosses, and you and you're dealing with it. And I went, you've got to execute that in the game. Trust it, believe it, do it. And as long as you're positive in your actions, you won't get you won't get a grumble out of me.
SPEAKER_00:That's the mad thing, though. That's the mad thing. So you're talking about a detail from a training session that you're watching on the train on the way home. Yeah. Is that a trait of successful people then in football? Being detail oriented and actually loving just to find those like one percents. Because we're talking about something on a cross, right? That's some small detail that the football world was.
SPEAKER_02:It was a yard in his foot position. But I'm just like, I that's who I am. I can't be anywhere away. Like, and and and over the years, I've I've I've learned off a lot of good goalkeeping coaches at the top level and and gone in, watched. Um, just I'm a sponge. I want to be, I want to be the best I can be. And it might be one percent that I I take from another goalie coach. And I can, I can, you can, you can, you can put all your sessions up. What what my biggest thing is in my sessions is try and create game situations, realism. Anyone can go and put a session on. Anyone can go and put a goalie session on, but it's what you're doing, it's it's what you're doing and the detail of why you're doing it. So mine's always geared towards a game, no matter what you do. Monday, Tuesday's feel good day. So Monday's a feel good day. Tuesday will be uh my probably my hardest hit of the week. Wednesday, recovery day, Thursday, like Bish calls it biggest day of his week because it's all tactical, it's geared towards your opposition on a Saturday. But he'll know I've I've already looked, I know what the manager's gonna need, what my what my our team needs. My job is to get Bish in the best place he can be to perform on a Saturday and and take any pressure that he's feeling away from him. But he and I sense that like I can I can sense if he's if he's feeling pressure or and that's not I know and I keep repeating myself, we're talking about Bisch because he's the goalkeeper in the moment at the time now, but this process has happened with all my goalkeepers. So I've had a lot of loan goalkeepers, so they're not yours, but when they come in the building, I treat them like they're my own. And every goalie coach who's who've let me take their goalies on loan have let me do that. And and you form a relationship, then sort of thing. They they might want to come in and and have a look. They're always at games watching the loan goalkeepers, but the day-to-day work and the day-to-day stuff that you do with them that's on and off the pitch. It's not just about the coaching sessions. Yes, that's that's the best bit I like about being a goalkeeping coach on the grass. I call it my office, that's where I excel. That's what I love doing, developing them on the grass.
SPEAKER_03:So, a little point I want to pick up on there. You said about like foot position.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And we kind of do this stuff, we do technical, and one of my friends is massively into feedback. And we say, we have the saying, the difference is in the details. So the difference in the details, the small little details can make a massive difference, like huge difference, which people don't even see. Hip positioning, foot positioning, yeah, stance, it could be hand positioning. The some the small things make a difference. So, how do you find them small things that make a difference? How do I find them?
SPEAKER_02:Watch him in games, watch the clips back, what watch him in training. Um, we've been doing some stuff with his distribution and we've slightly old him a little bit. We've noticed um his shoulder, just for example, his shoulder position. Um when he when he's kicking and he's he's kicking and he's feeling good about himself and he in his his body shapes right and his shoulder position. So it'd be like funny enough, this is where this is where Bish thinks about his game. So he he got one of our analysts, so we get it droned, but he got one of the analysts to get the phone and go alongside and behind him and that side, and we went, it's your shoulder position. I was saying it to him, but he wanted to actually see it. So again, no one would know that. But again, that's my job to make him the best goalkeeper he can be on a Saturday. So it, like you say, the small bits of detail would be so I would look at his clips, look in a game, I might say I'd make a little note of it and talk to him about it, and if he's noticed it, if he hasn't noticed it, I'll try and then drip feed it into a session. And like he it sort of again, he used to sit deep in his goal on crosses, and I went, I don't want I don't have any of my goalies sitting that deep. I want you to be strong, I want you to be aggressive. League one, league two, balls in the box, loaded up. You've got to be strong, which he is, powerful, which he is, physically light, you've got to be able to handle it, but it'll come from your starting positions, but you've got to back yourself. I can say I can show you, I can rehearse it, I can put all the sessions on, but you've got to trust it. And again, that comes from constant repetition. Constant, constant repetition. I always sorry, sorry, Kevin. I always say to them, even if you're not doing a tactical session, like master the basics of goalkeeping. Be the absolute best you can be at the basics. If you can nail that, you everything else takes care of itself.
SPEAKER_00:What do you do though if you have a goalkeeper who's not receptive? Because like Bish, you've worked with Owen Goodman, Zachy Voila, Tanz, Spike, like all these goalies are open-minded goalkeepers. They want to learn, like they want to learn from you, they want to learn about their games and get those 1% and their success stories of people that have gone on from your coaching to go and have good careers. Obviously, there'll be ones that slip through the net. Is there a difference between those guys and and the ones that are maybe less receptive? Like, how do you get through to a goalkeeper who's maybe less receptive to those details? And what advice would you give to goalkeepers that are working with a coach to be more open to feedback and to those details?
SPEAKER_02:Be be open to change, but also be open to come out of your comfort zone, try it. If you're comfortable with it, go with it, keep rehearsing it, keep training it. If you're not, sort of try and find a balance where so for all I'm gonna say, so starting position on a cross. You might be comfortable a lot deeper in your goal. Well, until you try it, you're not gonna know. Try in training, then try it in a game, and then and then if it's if it's happening and it's working for you, continue doing it. But constant, I can't repeat myself enough, constant repetition of what you do, day in, day out. And in the end, it it just becomes natural. Like you could just do a set of hands. Well, I'm big on the basics, basic hand position. I don't want to see you low. I always say, look at the make sure you can see the back of your hands on your gloves. So make sure who'd say to OG, why are your hands so low? I said, You see your gloves with the OG on. Just make sure you can see the OG on the back of your gloves. And then in the end, Bish was the same, really low. Work with De Gea. So he was in a De Gea stance. It might work for him. You're a different profile to De Gea. Try it. Within a week of him working out in Spain pre-season, he changed. But he didn't realise until I showed him on his clips. I went, look at your hands now. Mate, you're not dropping a ball. Constant repetition.
SPEAKER_03:I can't emphasize it enough. You said about the OG, so bringing in OG, we've got this, these new, brand new, beautiful gloves behind us, right? They're monster mentality gloves. They're really nice. They're really nice, aren't they? Yeah, beautiful. What pair of them later. What makes a monster mentality in a goalkeeper?
SPEAKER_02:That's a big, that's a big question. Monster mentality. Uh, you've got to be a winner. You've got to want to work hard. You you've got to wanna push yourself to get better every day. Be have a strong one I call mentality. You've got to be receptive to making a mistake, but bounce, bounce back ability. Does that does that make sense? Great word.
SPEAKER_03:I remember that from them.
SPEAKER_02:Bounce back ability. I just basically want to be the best goalkeeper you can be day in, day out. Is all that I'm I'm not there's nothing complicated. There's nothing dressing it up. Be be the best goalkeeper you can be. Make a mistake by being positive. How do you react? How do you recover? Smile on your face, day in, day out. When you walk out on the pitch, smile on your face. When you know, when you walk over that white line, you know you've done everything in your power in the week to be the best goalkeeper on a Saturday or a Tuesday or whenever it is. So monster mentality is just you've got to be a winner. You've got to be a winner in everything you do, whether that's small-sided games, whether that's a shoot shooting session with me, whether it's in with a group, winning on a Saturday, that's all that matters to me. Three points on a Saturday. So if I can do everything that I can to get you to the absolute maximum on a Saturday through the week, we've we've done our job.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, 100% agree about the winning. I have had a conversation this week with a pro and he got he got pissed off that he took a loss. Like quite well, I'm like, and he's got this competitiveness. I'm like, if you're a pro, if you're a pro athlete, you should you should hate losing. I fucking I hate losing anything, even with my little girl. I won't let her win. There's no chance in a million years unless she deserves to beat me. I want to win everything, even if it's we're gonna do the park run on Saturday. Oh don't in Liverpool, yeah. I want to beat my time. I get really fuming. I think you've got to be, you have to have that mentality of a winner, and you see it in the good pros, they're a winner through and through.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Absolutely. And and you know, but you've also you're a winner, but you're gonna have you're gonna have knocks and bumps along the way. How do you react? How do you recover? You've got to go again. Can't dwell on it. Yes, be disappointed, yes, be upset, get over it. You gotta move on.
SPEAKER_03:Team need you. Do you know what I mean? Take the analogy of like boxing, for example. So when I did a cherry boxing match, I sparred with uh an elite coach. Yeah, it's like you can't go in the boxing ring and expect not to be punched in the face. You're gonna be punched in the face. How do you react to that? How do you deal with it? How do you deal with that? It doesn't mean if you if you get knocked down, you get back up again. So an elite mentality for me and the monster mentality is getting punched in the face, yeah, it's not swinging windmills. So if you swing windmills and get angry and flustered, you're gonna get punched more. Yeah, like you say, it's it's getting punched in the face and then staying calm in the chaos.
SPEAKER_00:I was just gonna say that.
SPEAKER_03:I beat you both.
SPEAKER_02:I beat you both. Calm in the chaos, but having the re have the have the have the the mentality, I would call it, to have the reset. So if something ain't going well in the game, my god don't need to see me on the bench ranting the raven, shouting at him. Yes, I might have to get up and give him instructions. I'm not a baller on the bench. I'm not I'm not a runner raver. I'll give him I'll give him little pointers at half time and at the end of the game, but my work, my work's through the week, sort of thing. I I'm there as the goalie coach, but I'm also there to support the manager and the staff as well. And I mean, my goal, I'm not gonna get the best. That's knowing your goalkeeper, bitch. Ain't gonna want me standing on the touchline, running and raving because you shanked a couple of kicks. You know, I go, I've got my little, he's got a little trigger that we we've we've we've sort of done. He's got the reset, yeah. Remember your reset, go again. Next action. Whatever happens, always go to him. What's your next action? Positive action. It might be, it might be a little sort of um ball comes back to him, he strikes through it instead of having a touch, shoulders back, it might be a little sprint across your six-yard box, sprint across your box. It might be a little, little, something little like that. Reset, right, go again. You know, he's got one that he he does. He sort of he he likes to go back, have a drink, have his water bottle, gather his thoughts, breathe in. Sort of giving his secrets away now, but it it's sort of what he he said is his reset. That's fine, mate. I'm I'm it's about you, it's not about me. But you need to know when you walk off that I'm there for you. I always back you. But again, if I've got to get stuck into you, there's a time and there's a place to do it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um good question. I think I think it's just because I I love what I do. I love I love what I do and I want them I always I take full responsibility for for all the goalies because at the end of the day I've recruited them, I've brought them in, the managers put that trust in me. So I'm gonna give them everything I've got. Sort of thing. Does that make sense? Yeah, just giving them everything you've got. Yeah, nothing else for my playing career, but the experiences that you had. Yeah, well, yeah, that my playing career. I sort of I try not to talk like obviously I've had a playing career and I've had a decent career at a lower league level, never got to the heights that I I visualised. I mean, I I was pretty much played all the time, not until I sort of got to 30 sort of 38, and I sort of knew the role then like I was a number two, so I'm gonna be the best number two I can be, support the other goalkeeper, be a great teammate, and it it and it got me it got me a few more years in the in the game, sort of thing. But yeah, I but probably yeah, but playing and being in situations and sort of thing. And I and sometimes I never had a goalie, I didn't I didn't have a goalie coach when I first started off, and then obviously over the years you you do, you get one day a week, and so you sort of I learnt on the job at the time. Does that make sense? I learnt on the job. So in terms of the energy, um I just love football. Like I just want to win, and I I take a lot of satisfaction from um the way I am and the way like I don't get me wrong, I've had some goalies and and it and they're like it might be a bit much. So I've got to I've got to build that relationship of how I am and then sort of sort of drip feed it to them that I'm like, you know, I'm in your face every day, but in a in a good way, because I just want you to I want you to excel and be the best every day, you know. There's no there's no half-glass fill with me, like you, it's either there or do you know what I mean? But there's times when you gotta be calm or you you you know um I I might have had personal situations or situations where I've gone into training and I might and I but as soon as I walk through the training door, you've got to put that regardless, you've got responsibility for the goalkeepers and the team and the manager and the staff. So you you gotta you've gotta be able to shut out all the noise and be you still soon as I but people wouldn't mind I see that does John tell what I'm saying, you know why you know because if I come in and I'm like doom and gloom and feeling sorry for myself because things are something's happened off the pitch, something at home, and and they're seeing it, they they might they they sort of feed off that. So I've got to give them everything I can, and so I've got my own little ways of getting myself going and and and bits and bobs. I like to get in early in the mornings, I go on the bike for 40 minutes that that more mentally um also keep myself fit, um, and that gets me in the in the in the zone. So then when I go upstairs and I'm with the staff, I'm I'm ready to rock and roll.
SPEAKER_03:Seems like a big thing for you, and you can see it coming off of you, is energy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_03:Even when you walked in, you know, it's all about it's about energy for a yeah, but I think you say, Where's that come you you've got here, you haven't. Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_02:You know, I'm I I know some goalie coaches are really calm and chilled, you know. But I I feel I get I I feel and I think my goalies, I always I'll always say to them, is it too much for you? Like me, the way I am, and and and that. And they're going, no, no, no, don't change. But there might there might be some who you yeah, the more experienced ones, um, who might not like, but I I ain't come across a goalie who's who sort of get wind it in, baser. Do you know what I mean? It it's it's it's part of my makeup, it's part of my coaching and the way I coach is like lots of energy, lots of enthusiasm, lots of compliments, but also then if I've got to nail them or get on them and and and and sort of say like that's not acceptable, because I've had it in the past. Some guys would turn up, they don't fancy it. Well, in you go, and then that's where you build the relationship. You know, but it comes the the respect thing as well.
SPEAKER_03:Another word that comes to me is authenticity, yeah. Like that. So it's authenticity, it's be it being you, like you say, like a lot of people put on a mask. There's no you're you're you, whoever comes across you, you don't change. That's that's you, yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um I'm I am the way I am, mate. I I love life, I live life. Um, I enjoy coming in every day. I mean, what better thing to do? Like, get on the grass and coach. It's the next best thing to play in. But to be fair, like it it's just a thing of beauty, innit? Coaching a goalkeeper and developing them and making them even better than what they already are when they come in the building. If I can play a role in any part of their career, I I'd I'm I take immense pride from it.
SPEAKER_03:You come emotionally invested, don't you? Yeah. I I do, we do. We come emotionally invested, you're an invested in person. We want them to be win, be successful, be a better partner, better partner, better dad, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_02:And again, them relationships are like lads have got now, they've they've got families. I've got a family, I've got a I've got a wife, they've always been there for me. Be bitches, so I've had just had another um young one. So all that sort of thing. Um Maca's the same. You you know, you're not gonna come in every day and feel a million dollars. I I get it, I get it, but my job's to get the best out of you when you're in. You might come in one day and go, had a rough night, no sleep, which Bish has come in and said that. Oh, okay, we'll we'll tweak the session then. You know, it's not like there's no drama, there's no dressing this up, mate. Like, you know, there's no no like grey area, mate. We we do we'll do it. I can like lower your load, there's no problem. You're still gonna get your work. And like, but again, that comes from trust and honest conversations. Yeah, I'd be got it if he couldn't come to me and say that. You know, he's had a rough night last night, got no sleep. Because I sensed it, it um can't remember when it was, like he came in and out. I went, you're right. He went, and I went, it's all right, I expected it. Just had another kid, don't get no sleep. That's why you love in your way journeys. Hotel rooms. When you tell the missus, oh I got no way.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, I got no way, oh I got a way to get to run for the way.
SPEAKER_01:He loves it, he loves it, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, nah, that's uh yeah, going back to your question about energy, yeah. Yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_00:You you lift other people, you develop other people, and you're looking after other people constantly in your football world. Who looks after your energy? Who lifts you?
SPEAKER_02:Good question, good question.
SPEAKER_03:Um I don't know. Come into the keepers edge program if you want me.
SPEAKER_02:It just comes down to um a good question. That that's a I don't know. I mean, I've I've thought about that qu I've thought about that scenario. If going back to what I said before about I might have come in some days and I'm like whatever's gone on got a lot of my mind, but I've I've got a job to do. I can still go back to what that is. It's just an example. So I don't know, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:The reason why I asked that is because like I actually can't answer that. Well, our energy, right, is shaped from like purpose. So your your football purpose from what you've described and the way that I'm interpreting it is like you're driven from making driven to make people the best version of themselves. Yeah, and that comes from your playing career and how you said it yourself. You never felt like you ever truly reached the heights that you felt you visualised in your mind for your career. That's the reason why I asked the question. So when you do go into the training ground, and maybe it's been a bad week or a bad day, what helps you get through that moment?
SPEAKER_02:I want to be the best goalie coach I can be. To try and get to the heights that I believe I can do. I genuinely believe I can as well. I just I'd love to be put in that big environment, that elite top level, just to taste it, just to savour it, to see what has to change as a goalie coach. I I've seen it from afar when I've uh mirrored other senior goalkeeping coaches, when I've spoken to them and that. And I I've seen a lot as well and got and and sort of I wouldn't change anything I do. It might be in terms of um, it might be in terms of like the the way I am as a as a sort of might have to look like these certain managers that might not like I'm lucky enough I've got a manager who who understands me as a as a friend, as a person, as a human being, but also what I'm all about as a goalie coach. So back to your question of like who who sort of controls that. Me wanting to be the best that I can be every day and get to the to the levels that I think I can be at. If I don't, it won't be for the want of trying and working hard. But every day I'll just try and add something more and something more. I genuinely, I genuinely love, I can't, I can't explain the feeling. I've never done anything else. So I've played and gone straight from playing into coaching, so I don't know nothing else. So why not be the best you can be every single day? Like I don't I don't do doom and gloom, I don't do negativity, although it's around. Um and I just yeah, I I genuinely don't know what else I'm good at. And I say this to my missus, I'm a girls. Um I I genuinely don't know. I've been in the game 30 odd years, playing into coaching. I I don't know. So that when that day comes, which I don't I don't know when he'll be. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I'll probably be a coach educator, but I I just love being on the grass. I I yeah, I look, I look, I don't know what I don't even want to think about it to be honest.
SPEAKER_03:I actually can see the struggle already. Yeah, you can see you go in there and being like getting quite emotional about as you can see now because when you when you when you first go in the kitchen, I'm like, ah yeah, I've got loads of years left.
SPEAKER_02:Like, and then now I talk to younger goalie coaches who come in and sort of observe me, and that they're like 15, 20 years younger than me. I'm helping them, and then like, and then like some goalie coaches I talk to and go, me hips, my knees, and that like I'm going right. I I'm big on like keeping myself ticking over. I'll join in with the goalies in terms of the fun games at the start, the active warm-ups. I'll go on the bike, I'll go to the gym, not kill myself, but like knowing, I probably I say to the goalies now, I stretch more now than when I played because I believe I should be the one serving every day. I should be the one who's giving you everything. I don't want to be that goalie coach who can't serve and and commit to the session. Don't get me wrong, sometimes I need to get in behind them and get in behind um and observe them because I want to have a look at certain elements of their game. But I genuinely want to be the active goalie coach. And and the day that I can't be an active goalie coach will be, I don't want to think about it, but it it'll be I don't think I could, I don't think I could be, I don't think I'll do it.
SPEAKER_03:You can see how players struggle, like going a little bit deeper, for example, when they finish their careers and they don't go into football and this massive conversation on Monday with a psychologist. And the the identity crisis and what do I do now?
SPEAKER_02:I'm not frightened of work. If it wasn't in football, it wouldn't, it wouldn't, it wouldn't, but I know I'm good at what I do. So why not continue that and and take investing everything you can to be the best goalie coach you can be and be a good person. I used to have this thing where everyone will go, yeah, he's a great character, but no, no, no. I want to be known as the best goalie coach you've worked for. That's that's all I ever want is like the goalie. When they leave the when they leave the building, they came in and they leave, and they they I was the best goalie coach I could be for them. And they can talk good of me. That's all I ever want. Do you know what I mean? And and I think that's why I invest in them, whether that's a loan, and that's the beauty now of having, and this is where the club backed me, that'll be our director of football and the manager. We're all in agreement that it'd be better if we had our own goalie for me to develop instead of having someone else's goalie. Don't get me wrong, we've had some good loan goalkeepers, and I've loved coaching them, developing, seeing them kick on in their careers, you know. Um, but when you've got your own one and they're with you for a while, it's a it's another challenge.
SPEAKER_03:I've got a question for you. Do you ever switch off from the goalkeeping side? How do you find going home? So, for players that we work with, a lot of them they've they struggle to the to switch off. Um how how do you do that? How do you do that if you do? And what do you put into place for yourself to help yourself mentally? Because I work with managers and their heads always full, they're stuck in their own head. Like you say, you're thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking, thinking.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, and it consumes. Managers, managers, uh it'd be different to you're part of that, but you're not the manager, you're not in control of that whole team, although you're in and around it. Um, switching off, I've got a good family around me. Well, I I I am I'm a big family person, um, they help me. Um I I've I can switch off, I but I've always got the football on at home, and I I find it hard to switch off a game. I like I'm always looking for the next one. So I have a look at like, for example, last night I'm like watching Spike. I'm like, but I'm sitting there, it's a it's a virtue trophy, and I'm like flicking through there's so many games on the sky and whatnot now, in there, it's like everywhere. And I'm like, what game can I watch? I'm looking for it. I'm like, oh, it's wondering how goalies. So I'm sitting there, like, my missus going to me, what are you watching? And my daughter went, What are you watching? I went, no, it's Spike. I mean, the size of the lad now, he's like a monster. But me sitting there watching it, I'm like, sitting there with a lot of pride. He's playing for Man City against Wolverham, and I'm like, seeing him perform, come from this baby, uh, young baby goalkeeper, as they'd call him at the time, um, to now performing and watching him on telly so I can't switch. I don't know. I don't I I find it hard, but uh getting out with the family be my probably my biggest thing. I like to socialise, I think that helps. Um but yeah, my my my family. Yeah, it's um probably is it easier as a coach than a player? I don't know.
SPEAKER_03:So you've got to be the go between if you're yeah if you're a goalkeeper coach, surely you're working, you're not just working with the goalkeepers, you're you're between the players, you're between the goals.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that little that in between letting them know what sort of like so I'm I'm I'll get on with everyone. Like I'm I'm like you say, people's person. I love positive, energetic environments, and I get on get on with all the players, I like a bit of banner with them along with the goalies, and but it's also letting them know uh you better be on it today. Like gaffer's not gaff might be not in a great mood or whatever, which for you. Um he's a good guy, he's he's he's pretty pretty straightforward. But I mean, I I just drip feed it in, maybe just uh make sure you're on it today, skip, make sure you sort of lads out, mate. Don't be late, blah blah blah blah blah blah. Like just little things like you know, make sure you're out on time, make sure you clean up after yourself, keep the environment positive, you know, like sort of so to yeah, switching off, not constant constantly thinking about constantly on, yeah, sort of I can switch off like after a Saturday. You you do take it home, and if I've got the ump for whatever reason, um get it out of the system. How do you find losing on a Saturday? Tough because you know all the work that's gone in through the week. That wouldn't just be me as a goalkeeper coach, as a group of staff, especially the manager. You you you seeing the work that goes in through the week, sort of thing. So when you you don't get a result you want, you take it together, like you know, you know, um it's yeah, tough, tough, but I can I can I can reset again. Like I'll I would use my my stuff that I do with the goalkeepers, I'm trying to do myself, man. Well sure, reset. Um, look to the next game, right? What's the week look like? And then I'll get excited about right, what can we do this week? And uh, what do I like doing? And then I'll go, right, lads, I've got this session, right? I just wanna and I'll I'll talk to them. They might lift me just by a conversation on the Sunday. But I'd like to I sort of get up, debrief the game. Uh good, bad, indifferent. Can what can they get better at? As I've said before, speak to my goalies, and then I'll go out, I'll get out there after I'll get out of the house with the family. Um, and again, then I'll be looking at Super Sunday and what's on Missy'll go, like, why why why is football on all the time? Switch, she'll be telling me, switch off. Just wants to watch celebrity traitors.
SPEAKER_03:Why have we got man's EV brother? Celebrity Traitors is on, what's going on?
SPEAKER_02:So um, yeah, I'll try to try and uh yeah, you you you do and it's a good question because you do need to switch off because it's it's relentless, game in, game out, week in, week out, traveling in, training, just constant. So you've got to give your family, I believe you give your family your time as well. So that my my family would be my my biggest um sort of switch off, try and switch off.
SPEAKER_01:Even if it's even trying, even try like, yeah, but I'll be I'll be always like iPad, no one tells me iPad out of me.
SPEAKER_02:If you do, it's you do just just socialise, got out for something to eat, colour of beers, try and try and switch off, calm down.
SPEAKER_03:Biggest thing I've got with you is you are you thrive off people, it's thriving around being off people, same as me. I love being around people. This it's amazing. Same as me. A lot of time, a lot of my work now, I have to sit on my own in David Lloyd on my computer. On the phone to me, on the phone to you. I feel like I'm gonna mad and I hate it. And I sit in the because I can't sit on my own in the house.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I like being around yeah, I like being around people. Yeah, I like being around people. They might not like being around me, doesn't matter, does it? You've got no choice. Um yeah, no, I do, yeah. I do, I do. I like I like that, I like that, and that's what I like at work, you know, and that's why you love it. Yeah, that's why I love it. That's all I know. So, do you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, I love it, I love it. I've got one final question or a couple of final questions. Yeah, far away, KP. I can see you sitting there. I've got it planted. You you played a lot of games, yeah, and football's changed a lot since since you started. Like even your role as a coach, I think the goalie coach when I was in the system was there to serve, there to put on sessions, there to side with the manager and tell you that you should have done better. Whereas now you're a psychologist, you're a mentor, yeah, you're a human developer. How have things changed on your journey? Like your perspective of football, your perspective of goalkeeping? How have things evolved for you?
SPEAKER_02:Uh a lot, immensely changed from when I when I first started as a player to even from when I first started going into the coaching, like you say, ball of bags, cut of cones, not just volleying balls, it's just totally changed the role of the goalkeeper within the team. I mean, you almost got like first and for I've got this theory as well. First and foremost, as a goalkeeper, you keep goal, you keep the ball out of the net. But yeah, you have you've got to be able to deal with the ball at your feet now. I think you know, we've seen the the top level ones, Reyes, the the Edison, the Allisons, um, to name but a few, who they're almost like um that extra centre half, that outfielder. So in terms of like the way, I mean, when I played, like it, I was told shell it as far as you can in the other half, play off, play off second balls. But it's it's it's totally different now. But this season, I will say that it it's sort of reverted a little bit now. So there's a lot on set pieces, a lot on long throws, and this is not going away from your question. The way sort of teams have recruited Man City, Donna, everyone says he can't he can do it, but what first of all, he's a goalkeeper who can make saves, big safes, uh, as an example. Does that make that make sense? So it it's a it's evolving all the time, every season, every every year, like it's evolving, but you've got so is coaching. So you've got to be able to be able to uh sort of transition sort of different theories, different methods. Again, I always go back to like be adaptable to what your manager wants and what you've got to get your goalkeeper to do within that team. Is that does that make sense? Yeah, it's an unbelievable answer. Yeah, adaptability is advantageous. Adaptability is massive, and don't don't think it don't think you as a coach, you it's as a coach, it's not about you, it's about what you deliver to your goalkeepers to be able to perform in the team that you're set up in. So it I'd say adaptability is massive, you know?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Last question from me What is one moment in your life that you wish you could relive?
SPEAKER_02:Wow probably foot like football either one from life, one from football. I got two then, so I would love to have that as a 70-year-old league debut again. And nothing will uh I was lucky enough to be at both the birth of my two daughters who were both very grown up now, but that's that's on par with um a special moment in my life. Um and yeah, the league that I mean I've had I've had massive moments as a coach, promotions at Wembley. I'd I'd love that again, I'd love that feeling. Both playoff finals, it's it's apart from my kids being born, it's probably the best moment in my career as a coach. Um, because you the reason I say it, for 46 games, then you go uh semi-finals, then you get to the final to get to that, and to and I mean I haven't experienced it, but like at Wembley to win, it's just you have to be in that moment. You you have to be in that moment and take it all in. It's unreal. It's the best feeling in football, I think, winning a playoff final. It's just because you see what the work that's gone through, gone on through the year, and that's both of them, by the way. So they're both different promotions. I hope I'm not going away from what you asked me, by the way. So like might as well share this moment. So um the the first year in 2016 with a was with Wimbledon, was a different promotion because we just we we sneaked into the playoffs right at the end of the season. So it was it was a different feel. No one was expecting us to to to win and and go on and get promoted, but wow, what a group of players. What a group of players to and staff to get there and do it. Then last season, again, unbelievable group of players and staff. I think that helps in both the promotions that I've been involved in. But we'd been in and around it all season, so there's a different type of pressure. But I think I use my experience not just with the goalies, but around the groups, because we've had a few who've had promotions and and use that to sort of help along the way and and to to do it again, like after being there, also it's just it's it's it's best feeling football getting promoted at Wembley in a playoff final because you I know I'm repeating myself, it the work that goes on through the year to to to get the club back up to League One was was phenomenal.
SPEAKER_03:I've got one last one. What's your dream? What's the dream for you in the future, personally? Personally, in your career.
SPEAKER_02:Get get as high as I can as a top level goalkeeping coach.
SPEAKER_03:What level?
SPEAKER_02:As high as that can be. I can't answer that.
SPEAKER_03:What's gonna stop you?
SPEAKER_02:Nothing. I keep striving and keep I keep striving and improving day on, day in, day out until I get there. And if I don't, it won't be through not trying and not working hard.
SPEAKER_03:Nice mate.
SPEAKER_02:Quality, lads. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Loved it. Go on.
SPEAKER_04:Very good.