Beyond The Box: Goalkeeping’s Untold Mindset, Mistakes and Madness
The mindset. The mistakes. The madness. This is football’s last line of defence - unfiltered. From iconic saves to brutal setbacks, Beyond the Box ® dives into the stories goalkeepers rarely tell, and no one else dares to.
Beyond The Box: Goalkeeping’s Untold Mindset, Mistakes and Madness
Scott Loach: Why Cold Showers and Mud Baths Are Still Living the Dream
“Why can’t you just do what Alisson does?” From WWE belts to cold showers, Scott Loach gets real on the grind mindset, resilience, and the jolt of moving from boys’ football to the men’s game.
Scott traces his journey from Lincoln schoolboy to Watford, Ipswich, Derby and non-league, sharing the realities behind contracts, long commutes to Barnet, and staying “calm in the chaos.” He breaks down the environmental shift of walking into a senior dressing room, expectations, standards, and why goalkeeping is a job, not just a dream.
I mean I got pulled into one manager's office and just said, Why can't you just do what Alison does? Do you think that's a handsaver? And it's like, no, it's fucking like what's gone in, so save it and then we'll talk about it. We had to stand up in English, and everyone used to say, like, what do you want to do and all this? And you've got people sitting there saying that's just about to be a footballer. Every single person laughed.
SPEAKER_05:Lochi, welcome to the show, mate. You're right? Yeah, I'm good, mate. Looking forward to it. First of all, I've got I gotta ask you, what the hell is is that? Why?
SPEAKER_00:This is my WWE title. Uh no, just uh look I'm going to joke with the boys. I'm a bit of a wrestling fanatic. Um it's a hidden, I won't say hidden because everyone knows it anyway. Just something I like and uh told them I'd bring the belt down and bring my shades on and almost I'm a bit of an ultra ego when I walk in the door. So and my son will be buzzing off it when he sees it as well. So yeah. So that's it, pretty pretty simple really.
SPEAKER_04:I love it. No, when you walked in, I know it's off camera, but when you walked in, the lads were like, Oh, we're gonna play the Undertaker theme song when you walk in. But don't know if you caught that on your way in. Yeah, yeah, I caught it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was um yeah, nice touch. I'll probably get my missus plate when I walk back through the door on the way home as well. At least today the way it started. But um, but yeah, no, I'm a big uh big wrestling fan and uh a bit of an ongoing joke with with Miles and that. So yeah, happy to provide some entertainment for the day.
SPEAKER_04:I've obviously known you from your time at Barnett. That's when we were first introduced to one another. Um, and you're playing in the National League at that time. Do you want to give people some insight into your journey, how you got into the game, and take people through some of your early experiences in goal?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so obviously I started, I was like every kid as a as an eight-year-old, I was a striker, keeper got injured. So I was like, I'll go in goal one of them days. I can still remember it to this day. It's such a training ground. I think I was purposely diving out of the way and the ball was still hitting me, and then the scout turned around and went, You need to try as a goalkeeper. So still to this day, I don't know if it was a compliment or a negative to my striking ability. But yeah, so I was like, all right, I'll come back. And obviously, during that time, Peter Schmichael and the Man United team were like the thing, they were like the Man City of today, the Allisons and the Liverpool's of today. So uh followed them and that was it, and just wanted to be a goalkeeper from then on and and stuck with it ever since. Obviously, you know, you do all the school boy stuff, and my family's uh jobs ended up moving back up to Nottingham where I signed for Lincoln as a kid, and then the kind of rest is history. Then it's just kind of went from one to another with with moving to Watford and kind of building from there. So it all kind of happened really quickly and really out of the blue. But I suppose that's the life of a footballer, I guess. You can be here one minute and then on a completely different platform the next.
SPEAKER_04:I suppose that's the part of the game that people don't see, though, right? They see the outcome, which is you guys out there on a Saturday performing in front of thousands of people, but maybe they don't see the constant uncertainty that you live with day to day in terms of contracts, going to training, your body being in pain. Tell people about living with that uncertainty day to day. Is it something that you you've found hard at certain periods in your career, or is it something that you've kind of just lived through?
SPEAKER_00:I'll be honest, I probably didn't find it hard as such that I didn't think about it because you get on autopilot. Um, funny enough, I rang my wife on the way down. It's like, how did you let me drive to Barnett every day from here? Like, you know, because it's not even as far. She was like, Well, we tried to tell you, but you were just, you know, you just kind of once you're in that zone, and I think I was just touching off there earlier that like start training again. You just you're just in such a certain mould as a person and the character. I think what defines you that you you just kind of roll with it. So I think looking back, I didn't really take any of that into consideration. It's almost like you're just riding the quest of that wave, whether it's oh, you're at Watford, you're going to Ripswich, right? You've got to go to Rotherham and right, you're not playing, so we're just going to drop back down. Like you do, okay. Whether that's the right or wrong thing, but I guess we'll never know. But for me personally, it was always just right, just get on with it. Uh, and too much overthinking can come back and haunt you. That's just my belief, anyway.
SPEAKER_04:What is that process then? So I remember when you signed for Barnett, and we had a conversation, I think, a couple of years ago about that journey coming down from Nottingham to Barnet, which I think is about two and a half hours. You're going into that situation, you're about to sign for the club. Is that even a consideration or is it just a case of I want to play football, I'm desperate to play and build?
SPEAKER_00:Um, the Barnett one was an interesting one because I'd I'd been to Hartley Paul two years before, and it's probably the same distance, but the other way. But because I used to meet two lads and have really good friendship who we still speak to today on a group chat. Like, we used to meet them halfway and then we got put in a house, so we kind of stayed the night before. It didn't seem too bad. And I probably have not said this out loud, but funny enough, I signed for Barnet and I probably got to one of the roundabouts near Bedford where there's two shell garages opposite each other, you might know what I mean. I was like, I've got to ring down and curry and cancel this. So somebody just came over me, I was like, just didn't seem right. And I was like, no, no, no, it'll be fine, it'll be fine. Kind of and all the way home, you know, when you just sit in silence on autopilot, and you're like, not sure if I've done the right thing. For me, it turned out performance-wise, it probably did, because I've got play with the air and stuff and got through it and I've had a really good relationship with Darren. Um, but that was, I'd say that was the only little bit of doubt that kind of crept in. I just thought, well, I've done it to Hartleypool, I can do it to Barnet. It wasn't really a wasn't really a thing instead of taking that moment to sit back, perhaps.
SPEAKER_04:So you were leaning on that past evidence from Hartleypool to say that you could do it at Barnet as well, then.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that was that was literally it. That was literally, well, I've done it so I can do it not. I've done it, maybe I shouldn't have done that. Let's explore something else.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. I remember that conversation we had about that that Barnett car journey. Yeah. I remember a lot of times you said to me, like, you used to wake up at stupid o'clock in the morning, driving down, you're in the training round for what was it, about half six, seven o'clock in the morning. You said something so interesting to me, you were like, almost like a Goggins mindset, but you were you were on the spin bike before anybody else.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I've always been a believer that um I've always had that mindset that right, if I'm there, I'm gonna do it. I'm either all in or there's no point doing it. I think I'm there to train, I'm there to work. If I'm coming down here, I'm gonna get something out of it. And what I don't make up for is some stuff, I'll make up with others and almost be elite. Like, I'm not the loudest in terms of the changing room, but I think your professionalism can set standards throughout. Um, and I used to like drag Aimon onto the bike. So thinking if he can see me doing it, he's got to do it, and then it has a ripple effect. And you know, even when I train with the boys now, which is saying to Max, I feel like I love training. If I'm doing it, I've got to do it and be in that mould. That's kind of the the cycle I've always had. And I thought I've got myself into this situation, so get the most out of it. Um, I don't believe it would have been right for me to turn around and go, I've got to drive two hours every day because I signed the papers at the end of the day. And that's the kind of mentality I tried to uh put on like put on it, and also that could reflect back on the teammates.
SPEAKER_05:So you said there the word mindset. What does mindset mean to you and what's a good mentality? Because now you're coaching, you might look at things every little bit differently. So, what does you said about a mindset and a good mindset? And that was my mentality. What does that mean?
SPEAKER_00:For me, it it's quite simple, really, and that's your hundred percent. Now, you're 100%, and even if I class it in terms of my coaching, like your elite night. Well, I've tried to do it a bit different. I don't have an elite night because you're an elite kid, it's because I want to learn. Like, you might have a kid that okay isn't great, turns up every time, you're in the right kit, you're your gloves are clean, your boots are clean, you help pack up, you help get stuff out. Like, even when I'm taking my kids to school or they're going to school clubs, like you'd be 100% of like what you do. Like, so like you know, if your parents are dropping you off, you're working for 45 minutes, they work for 45 minutes, or don't bother coming. Or if I'm driving down here, commit to the drive. Like, I think everything you do for me, for a mindset, you have to do it to its maximum. Otherwise, if you do anything half-heartedly, I think it creates bad habits and it can have a ripple effect throughout your day. Like, even tiny little things, if you're getting up in the morning and you know, just do the dishwasher or something wise, the kids are in order, like little things that can start your day off. It's gonna be a tiny thing, but you know, just do it. Don't just put your plate on the side. And that sounds really cliche, but like my my whole thing around mindset is you come here and you work, do your best. Now, your best might not be your best, but that's you you're gonna get in the car and feel rewarded for it at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, I get it. So it's like a belief system that you have, yeah. And I completely agree that what you do off the pitch sometimes is what you do on the pitch, and it and it crosses over. And we were talking last night about like the X factor that I've seen players that I've not even seen play football, and I've gone, he's he's got it, he's got the X factor, and they've gone on to play on the Premier League, never seen them play football. It was just a mentality thing. And do you notice that now you're coaching, like so you've been through your playing career, you've had a good career, and now you're coaching. Do you notice that in other players or people now that you're coaching, you're like, yeah, he's he's got that good mentality or that mindset.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think you can I think you can definitely spot it. I think anyone involved in the game, and this isn't to knock anybody outside of the game. I think you guys sitting here will see it as well. You just know if four kids walk in here, you know the one that's got a chance straight away just by the way they look and the way they carry themselves, um, and the way they apply themselves. I think, and if I just look at my latter stages at Derby, for instance, we had a with Josh Vickers and Joe Wildsmith, we had a really good kind of bond. But I think that's because we all bought something different, and I made sure at 36 I was on that training pitch every single day. Now, am I a better goalkeeper than I'm absolutely not, but they're thinking, God, he's doing it. So then Josh would do what he has to do to his style, and then Joe, and then I think like you just hold yourself completely different, and that reflects on other people. So I think image and persona and that as well, that comes into mindset for me as well, how you carry yourself. Don't think it's just about how you, you know, go about your day. It's like are you walking up right, what your clothes like, what your training is like, everything. You know, there's there's a kid, I won't say who, that probably not allowed because he's younger, but I've I was stood with a goalie coach once, and we both turned and looked to each other and went, Well, he's gonna make it. Because you could just tell by the way he walked down the side of the pitch. You could just tell like he had like this aura about him. And I think that's what separates people from being the elites are the ones that kind of miss out.
SPEAKER_05:So it's kind of like the you talk about uh describe it as being like the lighthouse, so shining your light out where you attract people. Is that kind of what you mean? Like being the light, so you're being the lighthouse for other people, yeah. So they they're going, well, if Scott's doing it, then I'm gonna do that too. To try to inspire other people to and this, yeah, and this is a reason.
SPEAKER_00:It sounds like I'm plugging this now with a goalie school. And when I've spoken to Miles, like I want to get them all in a kit, and it's not a case of look at us wearing a kit. It's like the kit's unbelievable, it's tight fitting, it's you know, it's it moves with your body, and you think, right, we've got these really good groups of kids like that. But if you look better, you're gonna appeal more to the outside. Like, I remember Neil Cutler said, didn't he? You got Martin S to wear white gloves, white boots, because instantly you're just drawn to him. Like, I think your persona is a goalkeeper as well. If you look the part, you might not actually be the best goalkeeper, but you've got that little bit of character and a little bit of aura about you. People can say, I'll tell you what, I'm gonna watch him. Um, my prime example was I had a seven-year-old kid turn up last night, he's just turned seven, he had underarmour on, like with a round neck, white boots, like uh socks pulled up, you know, the cutoffs on.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. The one gloves on, actually, what with the white ones up there. And I was thinking, I just want to watch you all and see what you like. Because you look like a goalie. So I think, like, in terms of your mindset and your approach, I think how you how your image is as well. I think it all kind of folds into one. Where did you learn that then?
SPEAKER_04:So you talk a lot about like leadership, you talk a lot about looking the part and almost having that aura about you as a goalkeeper. Where does that come from in you? Because you must have learned that from somewhere during your career.
SPEAKER_00:My dad. Yeah, like um my dad obviously, his his my granddad was a copper back in the day, so quite stern. My dad wasn't tough in terms of like you know, but my dad was like, I'll be honest, uh, don't care if you don't go to school, but we're gonna train. So, like, like that mentality of you, if I'm doing it or I'm letting you do something, you you know, you're all you're all in or you're not. So, and the funny story actually, because my dad was the caretaker of my secondary school, he's like not bothered about you going to school, go for a run. And I was running up around the farm fields, my IT teacher on airbreak was running the other way, and it's kind of like we both run into each other. It's like, you know, the Spider-Man gift moment where it's like this it's like just kind of acknowledged and run past. But like my dad was very big in like posture in terms of the way you walk, and I guess that comes from his dad and having six brothers and all kind of being. I think his granddad was in the military and stuff like that. My brother was in the army, so I don't I think it's just the way we've kind of been nurtured um to kind of hold yourself in certain situations.
SPEAKER_05:Discipline, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think discipline's massive. I think I've literally I say it at home, say to my kids, like, do what you want, but you take your shoes off and you say please and thank you. And one of the things that kind of lies with me, I remember I went to my friend's house and there was another family in there. I don't even know them, but every time I see them, they're always like really nice to me and they always remind me, we just took you because you took your shoes off. I was like, Well, that's normal, isn't it? It's but that comes from I think your family values, and I think and then if you conduct yourself like that, people it has a ripple effect, like managers, players, they all kind of they all respect you because you're just literally okay, it might not be the loudest, or it might not play up for their Christmas duo or whatever, but I am what I am kind of thing. I get on with everybody, and and and then the values that I'll try and install in my goalies in the goalie school law because you never know when you're gonna need someone, do you like you know, the the goalkeeper, manager, coach relationships mentor? So you don't know when it's gonna come back around. So it's like always be a likable person, not not play the game as such so you like you, you know, but just be approachable and just be 100% because it I think it takes you further in life than you think.
SPEAKER_05:So, how's discipline helped you throughout your career and in what ways have you used it to become a pro? Because not many people become a pro, right?
SPEAKER_00:Discipline, well, you know, that's more important than motivation, right? Like missing I remember at Lincoln, kids' parties, like school social, you know when everyone starts going to six form and stuff like that, you're like, no, like, you know, I think it's given me that ability, like you you'll have seen Mick Barnett to show up every single day. I think I've had one day apart from COVID, I can count on one hand how many times I've missed training due to being ill, and probably two of them I've been sent home and have been there. But I think that all comes from the discipline side of stuff to show up. And if you make a mistake, all right, don't hide away from it, just train the next day. If you play really well, all right, you're not you're not won anything, like train train again the next day. I think them values that were put in me as a young kid kind of mapped out how I am as a goalkeeper in terms of like I said, to you at Derby for two years, didn't miss a session. Because for me that would just became the normal to be there.
SPEAKER_04:How did you develop that then? Because I I see a lot of goalkeepers, younger goalkeepers in particular, and you probably work with those in in the academy from day to day, the goalkeeping school, who lack that discipline, maybe because they allow themselves to miss training through illness or they want to go and enjoy what life has to offer. Why were you different? What was it about you at that age that saw the bigger picture and where that might lead you to?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I think before I touch on that, I think culturally we're different now, aren't we? In terms of like they've got the options to stay at home and do all the online stuff or do the course stuff, whatever they call course. Do you know what I mean? They've got they've got excuses already kind of made up for them. And even now, like one of the things that really infuriates infuriates me is like how many kids do you see that, yeah, I play for so-and-so, but I'm injured. It's that it's cool to be injured. Because almost like that culture of like, well, you're injured, so you're in at nine, you're not going to hunt until six, like that's gone for me. So I think it's kind of cool to to be injured because you can always take yourself out of the limelight, but still tell all your mates that you play for a club. So I think I think I missed out on that kind of culture. I think it was more, you know, like doing your jobs if if thing, you know, like if the boots weren't clean, it weren't just one, but you, you know, you're up the hill or you boot room bananas or you locked in the boot and get beaten up for two minutes and stuff like that. I think that kind of made you stronger. And to be honest, like I knew, and I'll go back to being in school in GCSE in year 10. We had to stand up in English, and everyone used to say, like, what do you want to do? and all this, and you got people saying this, and I just went to be a footballer. And every single person I remember to this day, I can still picture some faces, and you could tell me getting a bit annoyed now, is laughed. And even the teacher laughed. And I was like, I was like, what? But I knew that I wanted to be a goalie. Like now I was talking to these guys, these can see when I want to join in, I just still love training. It's just like I love talking about it. I could go on about it for ages, and it's just, I think it's just a deep-rooted passion of mine that made me want to succeed at it in any way I possibly could.
SPEAKER_04:Do you think there's a difference then between people who are naturally gifted at something versus someone who genuinely loves doing this? Because there's a lot of people who want to get a career in the game because of what the game offers, and then there's a handful of people, I'd say a very small minority of people like yourself who genuinely just love goalkeeping to its core and would turn up at like you are now at step five, even though you've played in the championship and train with some of the best goalkeepers in the world.
SPEAKER_01:Um I'm gonna say I don't know many goalies.
SPEAKER_00:I I just think again, I don't want to like train on his toes, but I think proper goalies have all got the very similar mindset, they're all unique in their own way, they're all dedicated to something, or it's like their life. I've not met many goalies that just turn up because I don't think you can just turn up as a goalie. I think let's be honest, and there'll be so many good goalies with so much ability in step three and step four, and you and you see it on social media, like some of the stuff they do, you think, wow, you've got some form of ability, but ability doesn't but and I use this terminology to two of the derby boys that just been in the England squad, that's fine because you're under 15s and that, and you're you're in two days a week. But can you do it Monday, then do it Monday afternoon, and then Tuesday, then you're getting dragged in Wednesday, and then when you go full-time, it's a completely different game when you have to be in every single day, and then you think you've got a day off and you're getting pulled in and you've got a train. And I think that's what separates. I use this term, there's a difference of playing goal or being a goalie, and I think it separates them too. Like being a goalie is different to playing goal, and I think it's to do with that kind of determination and mindset and dedication to being every day, and that selfishness for yourself to give up what you've got to go in and effectively do your job and then treat it as a job and kind of get out of there if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_04:No, I I completely agree with you, and there's that saying, isn't there, talent get gets you in the door, but mindset and discipline keeps you in the door.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And a lot of goalkeepers have talent, there's no doubt about that. But I think, like you said, there's only a small handful of them that that have that discipline to stay in there. So what advice would you give to people? Because there's a lot of young goalkeepers now that you work with, what what's the one thing that you'd give to them as a piece of advice that might help them get into a club or a position and help them stay there?
SPEAKER_00:Firstly, I wouldn't chase it because I didn't go until I was 15, 16. I think if you can stay in and around it and you're ready, I think you have to be ready for this moment. And how many times do we see it in football where an under 16 becomes a scholar the next year and then all of a sudden he's training with a first team, or in fact, then he's playing a first team game because it's an injury. It happens so much. So I think you've got to be ready for every outcome in terms of you've got to make sure you're training right. And I'll say this to my nephew, who you know, he's 11, but he's got a chance, but that's all it is at the moment, is how we develop. And like, you've got to be ready to you've got to you've got to eat right now, you've got to start doing your gym stuff or your core or even your Pilates now because the game's changing. Like, he's got this message, he's got this little he wrote himself a letter to himself and sticked on his wall, like, can I be where James Trafford is in 10 years' time? Well, it's a great mindset to have, but you've you've you've got to start by putting the principles in now every single day, the basics, and it's it's it's the working hard in the science, like I said. I'm not telling people to miss school, by the way, but it's going for a run and bumping into IT teacher or your dad getting home. And we were lucky, like in terms of like we lived on the school site, your dad taking you out, and he's like, All right, well, do this 12-minute run around the pitch and stuff like that. You working hard behind the scenes to make sure you're ready for kind of any possibility that comes.
SPEAKER_05:So there we literally flashed up in mind. Do you ever play with Jay Demeritt?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So Jay, unbelievable mindset. Yeah. I was with him in non-league, and I've saw him go from non-league to playing in the Premier League to going to the World Cup, and it was all down to his mentality, he had an unbelievable mentality, and he's he always used the term are you ready to sit in the dark? So you're prepared for your sunny day. So he he had an eye injury, he had to sit in the dark, but he's like, Do you know what? It's preparing myself for my sunny day because everyone's prepared for the worst. But are you preparing for the best when you get that opportunity? So when you do get that opportunity, you're like, Well, I've done the work, I've done the work, I'm ready, I'm ready to be here. This is what's got me to hear and ready, I'm ready for my sunny day now. That's what I saw within you when you were talking about that. It's like, are you ready for your sunny day? You're putting in the work, and then you don't know when you're getting that opportunity. But when you get an opportunity, then you're ready for your sunny day.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think you can apply it to everything. I'm even in my coaches now, and I have strong discussions with these guys about the way that it develops. It's like, right, you know, are you willing to work every single day in the summer holidays or put in a camp here and do this and do that and build up there? Because if you don't, you don't get, in my opinion, you don't get to where you want to get to. It's not just a quick fix. And you'll probably remember me saying this to Amen, right? All right, okay, you might play a first team game at 18, but we're gonna be at 25. Like, how many do you see falling out of the game? And the amount of conversations now I have drilling to young kids because they get all hyped upon this these England call-ups or playing for the 18s or being in the 21 squad when they're 17, it's like that's great, but are you still gonna be in the game? Are you gonna first of all let's have a career? Let's get yourself a family and a mortgage and look back when you're 40 and say, right, I've ticked one box, I've lived my dream as a footballer. Because for me, being released at 25 and not on a club and playing whatever, if if you're in the if you're in the pro system, that's not a career. Like stay in the game for a start. Sean used to say that. Remember, Sean, that's stay relevant, stay in game. Um, and then concentrate on one little thing at a time that you can affect instead of like chasing something that's not there yet. It's all just hypothetical, isn't it? And I think that's the difference in the minute. There's so much out there, and whether it is to do with social media or people putting stuff out, or you know, like the fear of missing out, like you're or parents putting stuff for there, and so the other parents like just concentrate, stay in your lane, like one day at a time, and like affect what you can affect.
SPEAKER_04:You were in that position though, weren't you? When you think about your career. I mean, there was that period where you were in the league and then you were kind of dropping into the top end the non-league. What was that message in the back of your head? Because obviously you started building your career at What for that's where you established yourself and then you'd gone in your own journey from there. Were there moments where you had to sit in the dark in order to see the light?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think Bart, I think, you know, we'll we'll touch on Bart a bit more shortly. I think for me, you know, I've played it a rare thing, really. I think I played something like 153 games out of 55 for Watford as a from a 20-year-old, which and then all of a sudden you're so used to playing as a young kid when actually it's the other way around. So then when you go to Ipswich and you're a men's environment, it's like, whoa. Like I've gone from Tom Clevy Lansbury and Mary Appa and a young team here, Danny Graham, to being one of the lads, and we're out every Saturday to I'm the youngest in the team full of men, culture shock, and then okay, like it's a great club, and everyone was great, and you're thinking, I need to chase the games again because I'm used to playing. And then you're thinking, God, all I want to do is play, all I want to do is play, and then you get to so you start chasing the games and dropping lower down the leagues. I always knew in my mind, I've got a friend that will back me up and saying this, I always I always knew in my mind that I'd get back to like the standard of Derby and be a squad. I always knew that I'd get there in terms of my work rate, uh, in terms of what I could offer around the place as a person, more than necessarily ability. But like you said, you have to, I think if you don't go through, if you don't go through the barn at times, you don't get your moves to Chesterfield, and you don't play every game for Chesterfield and you play Chelsea in the cup and then you back to like I think you have to write, you have you have to do it. Like I said, I got myself in that situation. There's only you that can get out of it. It's alright going to your agent, get me out of it, but then where do you go next? And that was um, I wouldn't say it was it was more not dark, like you know, like a challenge, but I always had an end goal in sight. I always knew where I wanted to get to. Um, so I think that's what motivated me every day to get in the car. And I'll be honest, sometimes you sit in the car, I'd get on the A1 at Newark, and you get to Edge Rate, and you're thinking, I can't remember driving here. Like I've had no music, it's just do you know what I mean? So I think, but I'd like to think it kind of did me full circle and got me back to where I needed to be.
SPEAKER_04:You you said something so powerful to me at Barnett, and I remember we had this con you probably don't remember this, but we had a conversation in the dressing room and we were talking about like non-league football, how players go on to make it. And you said to me, sometimes you've got to deal with cold showers and shit food in order to get back to where you need to get to. I don't know if you want to touch on that a little bit more in terms of the realities of non-league and how you deal with it.
SPEAKER_00:For me, it's the realities of life though, right? It's like, listen, we all get listen, don't get me wrong, there's some incredibly top goalies out there, and you know, they get the luxuries, and but you tell me deep down, like you know, Raya, Allison's, Ellison's, think of where they started as a kid. Don't think they've gone through any hard stuff, like them, them Brazilians and the Spanish and the South Americans, you think they've just been spoon-fed from it, they've all gone through some form of rough upbringing or playing on concrete streets or whatever it is to get to the luxury they've got. I think what I was trying to rephrase in that is to you listen, if you don't go through this, you're never gonna get reward. Because you could go the other end and get the nice stuff, but then you'll soon be out of it. And I had a conversation last year with Darby and the 13s. I ended up actually managing for the game against uh Mansfield once and uh 2-0 down at half time. I said, This is their cup fight, everyone wants to beat you. Like, I'm sorry to say this, lads, but 99% of your career will be on pitches like this and against teams like this. So get used to it and and crack on. Obviously, Mourinho worked, they had 2-2 draw, gotten back into it, but we'll talk about that. But no, just but that is the harsh realities of football until people realise it's not all Instagram stories and Facebook posts and and stuff like that, it is Louis Vuitton washbags, it's it's a grind, it's a graft, it's a job. And also what people forget is these top elite players, they don't get days off. Yeah, they don't get days off. They can't just go to to Nando's for something to eat, you know what I mean? They can't. And that that's what I mean as well. It's not just a case of, oh look at me, I'm a multimillionaire and I'm playing for Arsenal, for instance. It's not like that. Because the minute he leaves that training ground, so when he goes to bed, he's got to micromanage every single bit of his life in terms of his diet, his sleep, his rest, his recovery. Never mind his personal life, because you've got people out there waiting for it to go wrong. So that's what I mean as well. Like that's the shit side of it, which people don't get.
SPEAKER_05:So the big word there that comes in my head was resilience. The biggest one is resilience and being able to sometimes you've got to eat shit. Yeah. And are you prepared to do that? Because not many people are, because as you said, they people just see the highlights, the the saves or the good stuff. But underneath that, obviously, we've been in football, we've been in football a long time. You know it's not like that. The criticism, the judgment, the unknown, like you said about Raya playing. He was at a south, he was at Southport, right? And people don't think they don't see that side. You don't see the underneath tide where you're working your way up, and there's times that you're they call it the valley of despair. But you're in the valley of despair and you're down here, and you're like, oh what's the what's the point? What's the point of doing this? And then you're like like you, you had that underlying belief in yourself that I think got you through, where you had that discipline, you're like, right, if I if I keep disciplined, if I keep working hard, then I'll get my rewards. It's your belief system that got you through that, that resilience. So how like people listening to this, they'll want to be a pro goalkeeper, they'll want to play pro. How do you build that resilience?
SPEAKER_00:I think you've got to show up under any circumstance. I think if you're you've got to show up, whether it's you've got a slight knock or you slightly unless you physically can't do it. I think you've got to show up, you've got to be available. You've got to make sure you're available and relevant to that team, to that manager, to that that staff, or whether you're going to uh what are these coaching academies that I do now, or my golden school, or your local team, you've got to make sure that you are available, otherwise it's a non starter straight away for me. And then from there, it's working on made in the basics, like looking after yourself right at home. Like literally life principles, really, just being like street smart, conducting yourself in the right way. Because that goes a long way, you know, like being approachable. And almost like not playing up to someone you're not because you see that a lot as well. You see a lot of people that you know, don't you? Like you see a lot of people that are characters in the walk out the door, and like we laugh about the wrestling bar, but that's me. Listening to Slipknot and System of Down, that's me. Like it's always been me, isn't it? You listen to me on this, I'll get in the gym at what I'll put it on. Like, but I'm not gonna listen to house music because someone wants to put a house music on. It's like just be yourself, like don't don't be an actor. Yes, act in a certain way in terms of like you're around yourself, your persona, and a leader, but don't don't be a different person.
SPEAKER_01:Um and and ultimately believe in yourself, you know, like whether you no point.
SPEAKER_00:We're working on movement around the goal, and then the amount of kids that move and then they don't die, it's like there's no point doing the movement. If you're not gonna believe yourself in the end, you might as well just stand that side of the goal and you know, everything if you get that fingertip, that that hand that you get onto it, then three weeks down the line will be a save. So for me, I think look for any kid out there now it would just be conduct yourself in the right manner and don't get bored of the basics, and that's not just goalkeeping, that's everyday life in terms of how you put your shoes on, how you wear your t-shirts, how you wear your kit. I think just all around be a solid individual and just keep striving to get them 1%. You don't even have to be 1% like every day, do something that you can tick off.
SPEAKER_05:I think you're talking there about simplicity, it's because we see the shiny stuff, we always want that extra thing. What's the what's the one thing I need to do? What's that big thing that rather than it's actually the uh the boring stuff that you do consistently over time and that compound effect that adds up into that massive thing where people are not willing to do it the simple things, it's just the simplicity over time. Simplicity over time wins, and it the reality is a lot of the time it's boring. It is boring, it is the things that you said, just how you conduct yourself. You talked about the mask that people wear and authenticity, being yourself. We talked about it with Nathan Bishop, which is a younger goal that you want to fit in. And then I've seen many players wear masks working with a player, and to me is falling apart. Then I asked the manager because I know the manager, I'm like, what's he like? He's like, oh, he's dancing around on a table, is he doing this? Like, that's not what he's uh and it it it's being like you talk about conf being comfortable in yourself and being like the people that we get on with are the people that it doesn't matter where you are, like you're in a podcast, you're around pros, you're you're you're the same person, and you're comfortable enough being the same person everywhere that you go. You don't have to try and be someone different to fit in. And I think that's what you're talking about. Stability over time wins, adds up, and then and I think it it does take time because we're so worried about being judged, we're so worried about being liked, and it's like you might as well be yourself, right? Because even if you're not yourself, people don't like you anyway. Yeah, so you might as well be not liked for being you rather than not liked for being someone else.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and my dad always said to me, and it's funny enough because I see him doing the same thing, my brother's kid, saying, like, and and the term he used to say is like no one's gonna give you a job, and like what he means by that is unless you do what's right by you first, you ain't gonna build relationships with anyone. So it's like worry about you, don't worry about what he's doing or what they're doing, like, because they won't be there if it goes wrong, kind of thing. And he always used to say to me, like, no one's gonna give you a job, like you've got to earn it, you've got to earn people's respect, earn people's trust, earn people's relationships. Like, and I think that's always kind of sat within me, and that's what like like you said, don't don't put a mask on, don't be an actor. Because you're right. Because look at David Ray, like for me, he's a golden glove winner. Let's one free kick and it snaps it worldly, and people are gonna just cane you anyway. So, do you know what I mean? So, like as soon as you can deal with that, no matter how good you are, you're gonna get views anyway. Then you I think that's a better way to move forward. But trying to tell that to a young kid that kind of let one through the legs or gets a comment on his Instagram or something like that is is difficult. But the reality is they've gonna have to learn that.
SPEAKER_04:I remember at Barnett, you did a lot of that in terms of turning up every day, being authentic, being the first person in the gym. But you also mentioned that was one of the most difficult periods in your career. Why is it that when you go through the most difficult period in your career, you arguably had some of the most successful performances that you had on the pitch?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I think football's always been a release on the pitch. Um I mean, touch for it, she's fine now. Like my mum's. I remember one time my mum was basically dying in the hospital, and thankfully she got through it. And if it was random, she literally grabbed my hand and went, Don't worry about me, she's gonna play football. Because that'll make me happy. And I think that's one of the you know, like seeing it in the flesh. And then you're thinking, well, actually, I'll what can I do? Like, you can't do anything. Do you know what I mean? It's can't uh and I kind of use that mentality. It's like football's like my release. So I think obviously with the COVID times and my wife having the third baby, it was almost like again, going back to what my dad said, no one's gonna do this for me. So just like I've always I've just literally always had that mentality of terms of well, just do it, just just do it. Just do it, just do it, just do it. If you want to do it, and that's the direction you want to go in, then then commit to it.
SPEAKER_05:What's the release from? You said about being a release. What you what would you say is a release? You know what?
SPEAKER_00:It just takes me back to being a kid. I just love being in goal. Literally, I just absolutely love it. Like I love going in goal with with these like here. I love like we laughed off there. Like, I said someone should have set a video up with me and Dek talking in in New York in a bar after a few, and it's like, God, it would have been unbelievable content. I love when I've been coaching the pros over the um over the summer, like all of a sudden, like after about two weeks, I'm then joining in the in the training, and then, or even get my little lads like go on and score past me, and then when they hit it, you just boot the ball away. Next, like, do you know what I mean? I just love that kind of feel of it's just all I've ever wanted to be and do. Uh, and I think it just takes me back to that. I suppose it's like in a weird way, carefree, stress-free. Like, I'm I'm on a lot of apartment, I'm I'm eight years old again in the garden. It's like that kind of feel. Um, that's the only way I can really describe it.
SPEAKER_05:Was it like that for you on a football pitch as well, or was it did you ever get through times where you were fearful or worried or struggling, or was it always been that yes, this is gonna be?
SPEAKER_00:I you've had the feel like weirdly enough, I always go back to Barnet, Borough and Wood. Like really, really weird. One of the most nervous I've ever been. And whether you think because there's less people here and you've got a standard, so there was a few games when I was at Barnet and Hartleport when you'd play like your maiden heads and that, and you've I don't know if you're telling yourself you've got to set a standard here, there's not many people. Like there was a bit of nervous in there. Um, but when I was weirdly enough, when I was at Watford or like playing England 2021s, or even walking in with the England, like nothing phased me. And even at Chesterfield, walking out of Chelsea, like they had the light show going on, and I was like, Well, we're just like this, like walking into WrestleMania, it was unreal. Like, it just loved it. Like, but I think it just takes me back to playground mentality, and that's what I try and tell the kid, like playground mentality, like we all playing golf for a reason, really, don't and I know you said uh touched on it earlier, some play it because they're good at it, some play it because they're dedicated to it. But really, we all start playing football because we love the game. I don't think you should ever lose that. Otherwise, that's when, and if you feel any ounce, you like if I turn around tomorrow, it's like I really can't be bothered to get up and do this. What's the point? Like, there's there's no point in doing it.
SPEAKER_05:Like you said there, like key words you said were play, like playing goal. We're gonna play. Like for me, I used to love it being out called over the green, hours at a time, just having balls smashed at me. I used to love it. It was that play, it was fun, it was that freedom, like you said, like that release and joy. Even if someone smashed a ball at you and smashed you in the face, you're like, that's unbelievable, so good. The best ever, even now, do it in the garden, like go, even if with pros are not playing, go around their house and they get the ball out and get the gloves on and like takes me back to like do this, you know. I've still got this. But it's that that playful play. I think sometimes, especially goalkeepers, when we were talking about this yesterday, when it is play, it's fun, and then you go to the pro and then it becomes a job, and then instead of play, it becomes pressure, and then it becomes a prison. And that's what we deal with, like where it's become all the time, it's becomes a job. It becomes a job, it becomes instead of that, you cross that white line and it's oh, I can't wait to play. It's cross that white line and that that white line and that box has become your prison where it's like, I can't wait to get off the pitch. Oh, this is horrendous. Like I just just get if I just get through this, if I just get through this game without making a mistake, and I don't get judged and don't get criticized, then I'm them on, then I'm all right. So, how do we go about shifting that mentality? And this is obviously a little discussion to you must see that with players now, or you've seen it with keepers who are stuck in their own heads. Yeah, how do we get out of that and become how does it become play again and fun and joyful and expressing yourself? Honestly, I don't know if it ever can at that level.
SPEAKER_00:You can deal with it, I guess. I'm just going off because I'm talking top level. There's all it's a business now, right, isn't it? So there's always some form of pressure. I think you know, I think the difference with the top-level goal is we can dissect things, and honestly, it winds me up thinking about that. The fact is the geezers put the free kicker, and this is what annoys me. If Raya saves it, everyone's like, Weldy, he's gonna get golden glove again. You know, but he knows in his head it's a good goal. He doesn't need everyone in here to dissect it, he doesn't need Dave and his mates down the pub to say, Oh, you should save it, because the top-level goalies know, don't they? And that's what separates them. They can just close themselves off of that. Um, I think it's how for a younger generation how they can switch from it being fun to realizing there's a job again, I think just comes down to the individual, and I think that's what separates, that's why it's a 0.0 something percent of people that go on to that level. Because it comes down to you as an individual.
SPEAKER_04:I've got I've got one about Lochi, but you might not remember this. This is good because I know him. There's a photo from a couple of years ago, him and I think it's Eamon at Barnett who hammered it down on the training pitch, and we all got absolutely covered in mud. And I've gone in, um frozen to death. I remember him and Eamon coming into the dressing room, and they both stood there, cameras come out, and they're both just gone and they're covered in mud. Like I'm talking covered, but I think that's what it is. Like me at that point in my career where I'm kind of winding down and thinking about transitioning, he was in the peak of his powers, trying to climb back up. He was enjoying things like that. Whereas a lot of kids, myself included, we would never see the enjoyment in those things. So I think that's the mentality difference, isn't it? Like, even when things seem like it's shit, you'll find ways to get enjoyment out of the worst moments or the challenging moments.
SPEAKER_00:I think you could always like you can always get something out of something, if that makes sense. Like, you know, like I said to the kids last night, I put a younger group in the big goal, right? And the reason for doing it was look, I don't care what goes above your head because physically you can't save it yet, but more in terms of like covering the goal, what it's like to take the extra step. And I said, like, have you set a four? I always got told in a shooting session, just get your one match day save that you'll get back in your car and you can go, yeah, I made that, like, I'm on it. And and that's what I try and say to the to the kids. Like, no matter how bad the session is, how bad the rain is, how bad the wind is, make that one save that you didn't make last week and you've never made before, and it's a it's a box ticker, and that's how I try and translate the fun into the the difficult side of the weather, the training, the hard ground. There's always one moment you can do in training. And again, that's an individual who might be struggling with catching the ball, and all of a sudden you hit one through the mannequins and they go bang. You're like, right, out of the goal, you've done it. You can do what I mean. It's little things like that that I think you can install in the kids to get better each week, like little moments. You don't have to have the best session. You just have these tiny little moments as a kid that because you're gonna be inconsistent. Like Premier League goal is being consistent. So you don't have the perfect 12, 13-year-old or your 11-year-old, you know, like get but get that one moment that's gonna get you in the car and think, yeah, I've succeeded in that.
SPEAKER_04:Craig the evidence, right? Giving them the evidence of success and fun.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, no, exactly.
SPEAKER_00:And keeping them engaged, because I mean you've got my lads age, half of them are more interested in climbing up the goal than keeping the ball out of the goal. So whether that is like putting goal rewards on and like, you know, being really loud and then like almost like commentating through it, or if a rebound comes out to me, I'll I'll always go Harry Kane and I'll whack it in. Like, but then they'll start shouting, and you're thinking, right, you've got do you know what I mean? Creating them little moments like play and taking the pressure off them.
SPEAKER_04:Circling back then, you've obviously transitioned into coaching whilst still maintaining your playing career, and we're going to talk about that as well. But touching on the coaching side of things, you've joined up with one glove, you're now officially coach loach as you are on Instagram and and all the social media content that you're doing. How have you found that that transition away from full-time playing into non-league, but also teaming up with OneGlove?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, it's for me, it's been I've loved every second of it, like part of the journey. And it just originally started with speaking to Miles about having a club partnership for the um for the kind of for the for the goalies to get involved, and then with their backing and their brand and stuff, it just kind of went from one step to another, and the numbers now, like I said, we've got 172 goalkeepers uh over just three nights, so it's the potential there is to long run potentially double that. Um, and I'll get on to that in a minute, but I think just being around what they're doing and what's really good, and I think what really fits in with me is yes, they've they've got the best goalkeeper in Europe over the last few years, they've got they've got the superstars in the in Ryan and the Prafrica, but you know, the likes of Dek and Scouse and Ollie, and I think what they read the and this is what I try to kind of do. My goal is goalkeeping's for everyone. Like you've got different standards, but the ultimately the job's the same, right? We all wear gloves, we all wear a kit, we also keep the boy out in it. I think what's worked really well is that whether you're me, yourself, my little boy, or the girls now that are coming on board, we're all kind of under one bracket, and it's almost like made it like cool to be in goal and an acceptance. Whereas a few years ago it was like, well, you're not very good outfield, so you go in goal. Whereas now, like people are turning up, wanting to be in, like I said to you about the the seven-year-old turn-up last night, looked a million dollars. Do you know what I mean? It's like kids want to be goalies now, and I think hopefully what we're trying to create together is that continuous cycle of of bringing the next generation, next generation, and then not just having to be in an academy or an England squad to get your hands on the best gloves or the best kit. You know, everyone being entitled to that that same mold of like, sorry, what the word, like you're all you're under the same bracket and getting the same items and the same opportunities, basically, um, in some way or another. Like the the day camps that that we're doing, and I'm sure we'll plug this one that we're going to do with the boys down in and Bracknell, like, you know, having access to deck and a few guests lined up, and myself being there, and Steve, who you know, and doing the coaching and providing the best. Now, you shouldn't have to be in Arsenal's academy to get that, you know, it's it's providing for everybody, and I think that's what's worked really well.
SPEAKER_04:Was it like that all the time back in your day? Because certainly from my own experiences when I was younger, goalkeeping was never sexy. And I think with One Glove, the way that they're marketing things, obviously, now you've come on board doing all the online content and education. Goalkeeping is starting to become sexy again, and people like it. But what's changed in your opinion?
SPEAKER_00:Um, I think obviously the the generic thing is it's you're not just the big kid who can't move in goal anymore. Like they're athletes and they're they're playing out from the back and they've got a little bit more flair and and stuff like that. But I think I think we're making everybody feel welcome in terms of not just me or or one, but I think like the whole goalkeeping community. I think them little snippets we do enough, the little I think you know the little coaching things help or the little discussions help because you might get, you know, an 11-year-old watch it and go, oh, it makes sense. I'm not I've needed that. Like I've been overthinking that, and actually it's just so simple and we're all going through it. I think it's I think everybody now is getting a more clear indication that goalkeeping isn't just as simple as standing in the goal and catching a ball. And I think you're providing all these little details and like you said, the the cool little videos and the cool little training draws you do, it's it's making people want to be part of something that I think is growing and growing moving forward.
SPEAKER_04:Have you had any periods in your career, maybe in the past, at clubs where managers have had a weird perception of goalkeepers, or like you've been ostracised in terms of like the goalkeepers being separated from the group?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, I I mean I got pulled into one manager's office, so fairly recent, you'll you'll well you'll work this out and say who else, and you just and you just said, Look at it, he's like, why can't you just do what Alison does? And I went, I'm not Alison. He's like, Yeah, but why can't you do it? I went, well, for a start at the centre after want the ball. He's like, Yeah, no, but you can just stand on it and I was like, and I was thinking, I had to actually like take a step back because I thought he was joking, but he was generally like, but why can't you be like Alison? It's like because I'm quite clearly not Allison, like for a start. So you you still got that whole stigmatism of you know, you go over there, do what you've got to do, and then someone shoots from 25 yards. Looks like the goalie coach, like, when's that gone in? But moved eight yards away from me. If it was, you know, well, how about you asking dissect it? No, because if it takes a deflection, no one cares, do they? But like, you know, the movement of the ball, like, and then goalie coaches panic because they're the managers on him, and then all this other. So you still get all that. I think it's I think it's definitely changing. You've still got a dying breeding that just don't like goal is or don't get it. Um, I've never known something so mad as in like a striker can miss 20 chances from the six-yard box. It's like, oh my god, he gets an unbelievable position. Like, we'll let we'll let a 25-yard scream run. Why is he not saying it? Do you know what I mean? It's mental, but that I think as you think you're always going to have that because you've got and it proved with the with the free kick, and um just people want it to be controversial now, just to be heard or have an opinion. That's and that's separating the the facts and the legitimate opinions to people that just want clickbait, I think. And there was certain pundits I won't name it, do that. Like they know that there's no way that there's nothing wrong with what happened there, but they know it's gonna fuel the fire and get more views. Um, so you've still got that side of that. But I think on a whole now, the goalkeepers union, it used to just you'll see on Twitter now, if someone's getting battered, there's just as many now battering the people, but do you know what I mean? So it's like it's like a little army now of people.
SPEAKER_04:You mentioned about that playing out from the back part, and I get a lot of messages from goalkeepers from around the world who really want help with that side of the game. But I think you mentioned something very important there where playing out from the back now, from a mindset point of view, you require a lot of other people to understand that system and and act as moving parts as part of that machine. How do you help your goalkeepers deal with that? Because I think it's a lot more complicated than the manager just going, Yeah, we're going to play out and you should be able to do this.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like you said, it massively. Like I remember playing for Derby and Max Bird, who's now at Bristol City. Whenever I got a back pass, he was just there. It didn't care if you had three people, you could bop it into him and he'd bop it straight back out the fullback. So you knew whatever situation you were in, you're getting out of jail. I suppose Edison's the same with the plays he's got on Rice, the same with Saliba and that at the back. It's you know, people criticize De Gea, didn't they? But well, who wanted the ball off him at manual? You could go, you could go into so much detail. But I think all you've got to do as a goalkeeper is make sure you work on your basics. And again, funny enough, I did this last night. So I was doing a receiving a pass playing out and almost acting as if they'd lost it in transition and you're back in the other side. And the amount of kids that receive the pass and play it, and as they've played it, they're already on the way. So I so I did it and demoed it. I said, What's the difference? So, like you're still there when they've got the ball. Like, I think every little bit of detail, as long as you are crisp of your pass, crispy your touch, and like we said earlier, making sure you're ready for that environment as well as you can be, then at least you can look back and say, Got no excuses. It's like practicing your kicking or you know, your side volleying, or even your crossing, as long as you're regularly doing it, doing it, doing it. So when it comes to that moment, you can't look back and say, Well, I've never done that. Like just being prepared, I think. Because was it me and Max, I think we're just talking about throwballs over the top. You can be the best goalie in the world, you can be the best trainer in the world, but until you've played six, seven, eight games of the season, your distances are all over the place. Do you know what I mean? So it's like making sure you're ready as well as you can be for when that kind of situation arrives.
SPEAKER_05:So we have a saying sometimes, which is the difference is in the details, but the small details to make that that save. You made that save through a little detail that you've worked on. So you is one of your key aspects working on the small details to then you get the outcome. So is it the difference for you is the difference in the detail?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think even um I like to do a lot of stuff where you might do kind of like around the goal, and I almost describe it as like you know what's it called when music's been recorded.
SPEAKER_04:Metronome.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so it's almost like one save, two save, like that. Because how you see so many people going like all over the place, and it's like like uh Miles would probably laugh if he has speed up, slow down kind of thing. You've got to be quick into line, and then you've got to be then the calmest person in the save, deal with that, then then it's the next one, then it's the same again. Uh try and work on that because with your match day, it's not normally that one shot, isn't it, in a frantic kind of environment. Because people don't take into account as well. It could be the lowest level where you've got someone's kids climbing on the like, you know, if you play at a non-league ground on the barrier, and then someone's walking the dot, you or you could be in the Premier League and you've got all the noise, so you've got all that distraction going on, and it's that one moment I think that you have to kind of nail, and that's how I try and work to that kind of philosophy. And by doing that as well, you're breaking the goal down into smaller goals, and it's all for me, it's all about kind of can you be calm amongst the chaos? I think you've heard me say that a lot, and that's that's how I try and work.
SPEAKER_04:That's unbelievable. You just said that. I was literally just gonna say the one thing that we always talk about with goalkeepers is staying calm in the chaos. Yeah, so you're gonna have moments in the game, and this is the beauty about goalkeeping, I think. Like for moments in the game, you're probably not involved, you're just organizing, and then within the flick of a switch, the ball's up your end, and you're dealing with waves of attack, and that could be sustained for a long time. So I remember there was a game that you played against Chelsea in the FA Cup. I think you played against Marcus actually in that game. You you were under fire in that game quite a lot, and it was just wave after wave after wave. How did you stay calm in the chaos when you're in front of the lights at Stanford Bridge?
SPEAKER_00:I suppose that years of repetition.
SPEAKER_01:Um that's a really good question. Um I almost don't think you realise you're doing it, if I'm honest.
SPEAKER_00:Unconscious, yeah. Yeah. Um and if you think of like the top goalies as well, and and good examples again, and I'll use the goalies here, is the Ray I say from Kuna down to his left. How many goalies just rush out and have a rush of blood, and the ball goes under him? The Brafka made a really good save against Germany. Again, could easily creep to the ball, rush out to be a bit state. Do you know what I mean? I think you just instinctively, like you said, there's a there's somewhere in your brain that's like just I didn't whether it says ingrained in you as a kid, I'm not quite sure. I couldn't put an answer on it. It was almost like a Chelsea game was mad, wasn't it? It was like attack v defence, like training game. Um not sure. Couldn't answer. I couldn't I couldn't put a definite answer on it. I just feel like it was it's just been ingrained in me over and over time.
SPEAKER_04:We speak about that a lot, don't we? Like a lot of goalkeepers get to a certain level, a level of expertise. And I'm talking only a handful of goalkeepers get to this place where they can walk into an arena and perform, but they couldn't explain the reasons why they did certain things. And it's not a negative, it's actually a positive because it means you're using that unconscious part of the brain, which is more efficient, it's it's less energy in terms of your brain. I think if you look at all your best performances, have you ever really thought about the reasons why you were able to do that, or has it always been an autopilot?
SPEAKER_00:Um to be honest, you know me, I'm one of them. Like, if I play well, I'd know different than when I play. Yeah. But I just think it's goalkeeping. And I think like when you soon realise that it is all part of a job, and the highs and the lows kind of equal each other out, it's you you do just go into that. I like I I just go back to what I was saying to you, it's it's a cycle of what you've been used to in life, and that you get to know as a body, and it just becomes the norm. And I don't think the the ones do overthink it. Um, like we were saying off there about sitting down with some top goal is could be really good attitude to look. I wonder how many of them look back and say, like, you made that well do they like for the race against Kuna, for instance, like you could turn around and say, Why don't you just kick it? Like, why don't you use your foot? Like, what makes you sweep? Like what what makes you sweep? Like what because I bet he doesn't, I bet I don't I wonder if he's ever just sat there and gone, I you know, I bet he knows the answer. But like it'd be good to look back with certain situations and see how many, don't know, just in the moment. Do you know what I mean? Like, I wonder how many times that comes in, because I think it'd probably be 99% of the time.
SPEAKER_04:That's a big, big part of the work that you're doing now, right? With OneGlove, is you're you're putting content out there on Instagram, you're educating people on the nuances of goalkeeping, which I think get missed a lot in coaching now. Tell us a bit about that in terms of the content you're putting out there, trying to educate people and give them that perspective that they wouldn't perhaps get on on TV when they're watching Premier League or Championship football.
SPEAKER_00:Well, what I'm trying to show is as well, there's so many different ways to keep the ball out in there. And I think people, it's funny, like it gets really interesting when you get someone hammer your back and say, well, this and that. And it's really interesting because you can go into a massive debate. And I do always say that this isn't the right way. It's also not the wrong way. It depends on the individual. So, like we could say, you know, we're talking about the the Ray SA, for instance, he's a leg sweep and he gets his hand down. A lot of people would have gone with a foot, you know. But if you are going with your foot, what's the technique? Like, are you forward? Are you kicking or are you leaving a gap? Like, kind of we're trying to show people that that there's not just one mode of goalkeeper here, there's so many different modes of goalkeeping. I mean, I did something on the wide stance the other day from Man City. Now, would I do a wide stance? Absolutely not. Am I against it? No, because it might suit you. And we're just trying to show people that there's all these different types and little kind of parts of goalkeeping that can all come under one bracket. You've got them work out. And the good bit of advice I was always giving is like, who is Scott Loach as a goalkeeper? You know, because I'm not Yann Or Black, I'm not Ben Foster, I'm not Joe Hart in Scotland, but like, so I think these young goalies, you can watch all these little bits, but you've got to work out. So my nephew's 11, like Zach's like, right, Zach, who are you? Like, you want to be Trafford, but you're not Trafford. Like, and we're just and I think trying to give all these different kids, like, I think they'll go and see something and think that's how I've got to save it. And it's not always the case. So I'm not educating them in terms of saying, this is the right way, this is the way you have to do it. We might analyse the same save over the course of the last few months in so many different ways, but you've gone from a leg sweep to a negative step to a power step. You've all dived the right way and gone the right way. It's like, what, but what are you? Do you know what I mean? And I think that's what we're trying to do. And it's not about Scotland's goalkeeping being this, it's about look, goalkeeping's goalkeeping, and it's your way, it's not the right way. And we're trying to kind of give kids that confidence. And you know, even coaches have messaged me or older, older players, um, and just constantly learn. Like Aaron Bott, who's at Forest, but really good chat with him in the in the summer. And he said, I watched your video about corners and stuff. And he's like, Why would you, you know, like outswing? He's like, Why uh, why do you start hiring outswing? And I was like, Well, you know, they'll probably drill it in or whip it out. And he's like, you know, like, because I was talking to Matt Sells about this, and he just stays on his line. I was like, why's that? And he's like, because you're never gonna come for the cross, so why put all that stress in getting back? And you're thinking, and I'll watch like, wow, 37, I'm still like, and that's what we're trying to do, like little bits here and there that you're that you're putting out. You know, we were off there saying me and deck were dissecting something like there's always something you can learn if you're open to learning it and you want to learn the position. And I think that's what we're trying to do, hopefully, uh as a as a brand in a goalie school.
SPEAKER_05:It's a never ending process, isn't it? Yeah, you're always learning. I'm always learning. I'm learning today. Like this is it's all about taking in different views, everyone's got different viewpoints. And there's for goalkeepers, I think what people get caught up in is this is the right way, this is the wrong way, rather than did you save it?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:I mean, the ball, yeah. Did you keep the ball out there? Yes or no? Like we talk about this all the time, don't we? Yeah, you make a foot foot save. Oh, what you should have gone with, but did he save it?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Is the ball in? Yes or no? I think sometimes there's no perfect. And I I have this discussion with pro goalkeepers who have got coaches, and the coaches are saying, you have to catch it like this. But this is the way you have to catch it. I'm like, because this is the way they've done it. And you're like, well, does he catch it?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Is he catching it in it like, does he have to do it this way? Or can you find like say that Chamachial does the damage catch? Yeah, yeah. And and I would scoop it. What's the right way? What's the wrong way? Is there a right way and a wrong way? And the answer is a lot of time.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I do it. It's probably on the last video. Like, I drop really low, don't I? Like, I almost turned my hands there and dropped my knee. I get so annoyed with myself. And then but I can fit it works. I don't know why I get annoyed with myself. I don't know, because I know it's not the wrong technique, but I don't seem to spill it if I do it that way. So that works for me. And like the whole spread and smother things that like you never see me spread, mate, because I won't get back up. Like um, you might do it instinctively, but like you can even flip on his head and go, Schmeichel spreads, because he's probably the first one to do it. Lauries was always head in hand. Like, that's what I'm saying. What's effective? And that's what we're trying to show kids all these different routines. Uh you know, De Gea was always a K-block, worked for him, didn't it? You never saw him spread or smother, like he'd saw me stop and block in that shape, or you know, like it's like even getting above the floor, Raya somehow spins quicker than I could ever get up. And but that don't mean I'm gonna start trying to spin because I'll get stuck on my back and be kicking in the air like a till. But like, but you've got to find a way to you gotta find a way to to fit your kind of mould as a goalkeeper. And I think that's what we're trying to do. And the game's forever changing, and if you don't adapt with it, it's gonna pass you by.
SPEAKER_04:One thing you said to me many years ago was your conversation with Carl Pilkington about this topic. Do you remember what what he said?
SPEAKER_01:Don't go chasing. No. No, go on.
SPEAKER_04:About simplifying goalkeeping. You said to me, Carl Pilkington pulled you one day and he said, I don't care what you do, your main job is to keep the ball out of the way.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, just literally like do your job. You should say it before every every time um every time you used to go out, I hear him shouting all the time, do your job, like do your job, and then worry about everything else. Like, don't go and if don't like I think the saying is if you can't affect, then protect, isn't it? It's like do what your job says on the tin, basically, and that's to keep the ball out of the net. And I always go back to one of the England videos with Margus, and I think it's I'm sure it's Pickford and Henderson. It goes in and one of them goes to save it the foot. And he's like, Do you think that's a hand save there? And there's like, no, it's a foot. And he's like, Well, it's gone in, so save it, and then we'll talk about it. And I think that, but that's it. I think like if I can do all this, but if I'm saving it, then we can talk about it afterwards and say, you know what I mean? And and it's finding what works for you instead of me all of a sudden going and goal on Saturday and thinking, I'm gonna go out and do this perfect spreadshape because deck can do the splits. I want to do the splits for that deck, but I can't. But I'm gonna try and do it and get make it. You know what I mean? But it's so easy to get like drawn into all that, and I think what I'm trying to do with the content is show every different aspect and how many situations from an angled shot you can be down the line, deep in the line, like whatever. It's the same scenario, but there's so many different outcomes. I think we're just trying to put that into the the future generation to say, look, there's so many different avenues you can go down here, find your way. Yes, that one might not work, but that one might work. Um, and that's all we're trying to get across is find your way as a goalkeeper.
SPEAKER_04:How can people interact with you then? Because obviously, this is a big part of the direction that you're going in.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, we've just set up a we're we're on the on the OneGlove page now. There's a coach loacher bit at the bottom, and there's an email, and you know, listen, I said to her earlier on the podcast, I absolutely love goalkeeping. So, like seriously, emailing anything, it could be, I could have done better with this goal, and what do I do here? It could be anything, and at some point we'll find a way to try and dissect it and and get back to them. Um, you know, whether it's a day later or two weeks later, we'll try and we'll try and cover everything and and go through it because everybody's point of view again will be different. So you can kind of access us on the one glove page. Obviously, I'm on Instagram as well, which is obviously Coach Loach, which you'll see me there.
SPEAKER_04:Great intros on those videos, by the way.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and uh, I might just get a hat that says I love wearing a hat. Yes, goal is on my hat. Um so yeah, that's one for one for you to sort at will. Um but yeah, on there, and yeah, we've got camps coming up, which we're you know, we're gonna put a I've got almost like a coach floach tour, um, which is really good actually. It's the good thing about the goalie schools because we have so many numbers, we've almost got like the northern sector cover. We've got like a Manchester, and then the girls' stuff's doing going really, really well. Um and then we've got so we've got Manchester, we've got girls one, and then we've got another one in Nottingham, and then we're gonna have like the finale down here in Bracknell, which I think uh some of the boys will be coming to like deck, and they're gonna get the one with Brandon and hopefully almost show the kids a little bit there as well, that like we're all accessible, and you know, goalkeeper's got you know, we'll have our little kind of stations planned out. I think Miles will get his boots on and put me in deck and and a few through a session. No, so I think it's really good. I think the best form of learning as well for the kids is officially to see it. I think if you see like the older pro the older one and me and deck and maybe one of all this different styles about how you get the same outcome in a session, like kind of over lunch, do what I mean, and hopefully get a few pros in for some question and answers as well. Because I think that's always the best thing for a kid, like you love it, don't you? So we're almost going to have a finale, which I think we're gonna put out date for that um at the end of October, which will be a really good one. So you can access me fairly easy on social media, and yeah, we're just looking to grow it and help people as much as we can. Like, I think in terms of the camps and you know, moving things around the country is is is the next step for me. I'm happy with in terms of where the goalkeeper scores that in terms of like the numbers and the load, because you don't want to take too much on because then I think you lose the quality. I think the longer term would be to you know like to get your own hub and have like your coach load headquarters type thing, um, which I think can I think it's doable. Um, I'm not I'm not you know, you all got to have goals, right? I think um to to get my own kind of place so it can be 20 foot, not 24-7 because I'll be knackered, but almost be like Monday to Friday and almost have that, whether it's and this is the thing I'm trying to do as well, because you see a look, whether it's a one-on-one or two-on-one, or we get another ex-pro to to work with us, and someone kind of goes with him, and then we have the girls, then we have you cater for everybody, not just say this is a goalkeeping academy, turn up, pay you money, we're all training a massive group. It's we've got like a fitness coach now who's like a licensed and worked from the FA, so he puts them through like specific stuff. We've just built a really good relationship with um a Pilates teacher who's gonna start coming in. It's because whether you like it or not, like no one's gonna bench press and do what I did at Barnet in 10 years' time, no one's gonna do it, are they? No one's it's gonna be how much DG benchy about say 120, yeah, yeah. One one, two, one. Um but but that kind of stuff's gone, like it's it is functional fitness and you know, doing your reformer stuff, and because the goal is gymnasts now. They are they are the gymnasts, and we're trying to kind of get ahead of the curve in terms of of what we provide that way. And you know, we've got my brother being ex-military as well, he was a PT in the military, so it's almost getting him every now and then again to to beast and to get that kind of oh my god, this is a shock to the system, like that kind of stuff, and like dislocated expectations, yeah, yeah. And there's nothing worse as there's a goal, and when you turn up a train, you think, where's all the goals and the coves? And then you just see my brother study really angry, like, come on, uh whatever, and it's just kind of like.
SPEAKER_05:You can see how people deal with it, right? So you can see the mentality there, whereas this is not what you're supposed to be doing, yeah. This is not right, and then you can see people either sink or swim, and you'll see people mentally, they they've they've gone. Yeah. Because their expectations are, oh, we're gonna come home and dive around and do this, and then suddenly you're gonna be beasted. And you can tell already, like, oh, that person there, he's yeah, we have quite between the eyes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And then the other one thing we're working on, we've got like a a guy funny enough, uh, wanted some training in the summer, and I got chatting to him, and he's actually uh a visualization coach, got quite big, and I um he was so we're trying to link up with him. So these are all things that are working in the in the background in terms of just giving that kid like making sure they're prepared because you know, like listen, we might have 200 kids, might be one that gets through, and if that one's ready for it, then we've kind of done our jobs. So I mean there's a lot that go on to the academies, but then that next step is the and we're just trying to give them a platform that that you'd get everywhere else.
SPEAKER_05:I love it, because you're kind of giving them not just because the reality is most of them aren't going to make it, but you're giving, and this is one of our values, you're giving people life skills they can take away into everyday life. So there's many ways to skin a cat. There's not just one way, and you're you're going, well, this try this on, this might work for you. If it doesn't, no worries, try this on, try this on, try this hat on. And I think that's and that's where people find their own way, though. Oh, I like that, I'll take that. And it's taking different skills from different bits, yeah, which I really, I really, really like. I think also it's prepared, like as well, right?
SPEAKER_00:You get some good money in non-league now, and you can play in front of good crowds now, and it's almost like, and we've got a guy called Soldini who was at Knotts County, um, Burton, Derby, he's he's still playing non-league now, 42. So he's kind of he's coaching with us, uh Northern Irish guy, so rough and ready. But like the reality is you he's got all the links to your step three, step fours, and so so you can take the 16, 17-year-olds into train and say, look, all right, you might not get to this, but you can still play an FA VARS or an FA trophy game in front of a thousand people and pick up a couple of good. You can still get that same feeling, and there's still some form of career to be had in the game and staying around it without setting your sights up playing for Tottenham and never getting there. Let's pull it back a little bit and see where where you get to. So we're trying to introduce kind of all that as well. Um, so we're getting there. I mean, it's been hectic, it's been you know, put pretty full on, but I suppose it's um it means it's going in the right direction.
SPEAKER_05:It's like a new journey for you, right? So you had the fucking journey. We were retired, semi-retired, weren't you? Yeah, yeah. That's the new the new journey.
SPEAKER_00:Now I want to get back out of here. If anyone needs a training goal, they give me a shout. Put out there. Never know. Yeah, attracted to the world. Never know what I'll do this. I will go anywhere to train, I am not bothered. I love it, yeah. I love it. Um yeah, and almost like and as daft as it sounds, like almost being that little freelance, because you know, having the pros coming in the summer, and you know, because you can relate to them a little bit. And we were talking about, I think, um, just off there, about are you a goalie coach at a certain level, or are you a goalie manager? I think there's two different things. I think like with the pros, like when they come in, it's like I had Josh Vickers over the summer. It's like I know what his strengths and weaknesses are. I work with him every day for a year. It's like, right, you don't need to just like be up, like you just need to be ticked over, whereas someone else needs this, and you can kind of just keep managing them. So when they go back into preseason, they feel right. Because ultimately, as well, for a goalie, which we've not really touched on, if you feel a million dollars, you you just feel you just feel better within yourself. You feel a better goalie. You know, it's like if someone, if you if I walk out that door now and someone says, You are unbelievable in goal, and we drive all the all the way home thinking I'm gonna play again, I'm gonna play again. Do you know what I mean? It's like you all like that little bit of an ego boost and feeling good as well.
SPEAKER_04:I suppose that's where you're at now, right? Because you've just started playing step five again. So you thought you'd left the game or at least moving away from the game, and now you find yourself back in the thick of it. I think you've got some other stuff in the pipeline in terms of baller league potentially that you're you're looking at. Tell people about that and your addictiveness to the game.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I understand. I'm just still I'll get diagnosed with some of it soon, I'm sure. But um, yeah, I couldn't stay away. I had a few little in hindsight. Did I retire a little bit too early? Maybe, but options at the time are limited. But if I look what's growing in the background and the opportunity to work with these guys and you know, being grateful to head over the states. And I my dream was to play abroad, so like without the sucking eggs as such, to go and even just coach abroad was like a massive thing for me. It's like, wow, that big tick. It's just you know, it's always something I wanted to do. Um, so in hindsight, like might have done it too early, but this is building really nicely and still got so much much to go. So it's given me the time to kind of put into that. But I just love hitting the grass, man, or 4G now. I just um you know, it's been really nice to play. And the more I play though, the problem I've got is I get more of the bit between my teeth, and it's like, you know, but then you're thinking if you go back up the league, you're losing your Tuesday, Thursdays and and and stuff like that. And the level I'm at is great. I've I've managed to fall into a really, really good group of lads, really, really good group that um have really taken to me, they'll give me some shit as well, which I love. Like they'll give it me and the manager as well. Like I said to him openly, I said, like, don't you know, just like I'm literally just Scott, I'm not, you know, he gives me a bit of shit in it, and I love it because there's no like no one feels awkward or special or or whatever, and it's it's it's what I find hard though is getting used to like where someone says to that, oh, he's at work. I'm like, what is he gonna like? That's what I find, like that's really mind-boggling to me. Um, but I love it that the fact that no disrespect, the refs are crap. Like, you'll get four fans like that travel with that team one way behind the goal with a drum, and they'll just be absolutely mothering you for 90 minutes, you know, because they're quiet, or you can hear it, and then in the end, like I've played Eastwood the other night, and this is my claim to fame. By the call, I meant one of them went, Are you coach loads from TikTok? I was like, Yeah, yeah, I am, yeah. Give it that one, and uh then like a bit of banter all through the game, and then little thing like I went to get the ball back and he threw it away, and his mate was like, I would have thrown it in his face, and I was like, You didn't because you didn't get the ball like that. And then all his mates laughed at him, and then so I like having that little kind of relationship with just the fans and people like that. Because I because weirdly enough, I've never been able to do that.
SPEAKER_04:Because you've always been playing in big stadiums, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and you've never been able to have that little fun side to it and and just like feel the passion. I mean, at Newark, to be fair, we get like 350 fans. I think at a local derby, we've only had 600 fans at step five, but it's like it's their life, you know, it's their village mentality, it's um and it's seeing it from a completely different aspect, which I've really kind of fallen in love with. Um then regarding the ball league, yeah, I think it's just I think it'd be great for. I mean, firstly, I just love playing goal, so it's another another thing to put yourself out there, and I think it'd go really well with everything we're doing um and fitting nicely with the way kind of society is going at the minute and all the social stuff we're doing, and it'd also be really nice to to play against Dek and some of the boys that that we've worked with. And I think one glove have got a few goalies in and now, so it'd be it'd be really nice touch to go and almost have like the old man and the younger ones coming through, and um yeah, and obviously Mauro Vallett's in there isn't Ethan Barnett, and I spoke to Time. So there's a few in there that kind of you've got a relationship with. So yeah, I'd love to do it. And and one of the big reasons I'd love to do it as well is is for my own kids and the kids at the Goldman School because they all grown up in that kind of YouTube kind of generation now as well. So they'll think I'm even cooler because believe it or not, mate, honestly, yeah, I'm not kidding you. Some of them do have no idea that I've ever played football before, which I kind of like about it. I had one lad say to me when I was talking, I said to him when I was at Watford, he went, what he looked at that, he's like, he had no idea. I was like, no, I've not just made it up, but I don't just play so it'd be really nice. You weren't born when you're at Watford. Yeah, so it'd be really yeah, so it'd be really nice to um kind of playing it for that reason to show all the young kids we've got that you know I used to have a fairly decent career, and I was actually your own goal and and go from there. So yeah, but we'll just we'll just see.
SPEAKER_04:One final thing from me then. This podcast, we we started this podcast with One Glove because we really wanted to help people with the mental side of goalkeeping and really unpick all the nuances and the the myths that the football world never discusses. What's one of the most challenging things that's ever happened in your career and how did you overcome that moment?
SPEAKER_00:Um probably the hardest thing I found was as a as it looking I I didn't realise it at the time, but but the adaptability from change room to change room when you first change, like going from Watford to Ipswich, like that kid's environment to that men's because at Watford you're always a kid because you come through to go into the men's environment, how much you have to and for me, that's when we talk about that's when it adapted from being a hobby to a job. So adapt so first realizing that that actually these don't these aren't these aren't your mates, these are work clients at the end of the day. Like there might be a group of in there. Um your mates have gone like Clev's gone back to Manu, Danny Graham's gone to like you're in a new environment and this is a job, they're expecting you to work because they've bought you and you've got to hit the ground running. So I think that was that was tough in terms of like adapting it from going from a kid's dream and a hobby and the fun to the play stuff to the real stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Um and then I think just getting through the grind of it, I think, like because the adrenaline wears off after a while, right?
SPEAKER_00:And I think I'll go back to and and I go back to Barnet because you know me, so you can kind of reflect on it. I think at Hartley Paul again, I played every single game for two years, play as player, player like it was going really well. And then I know I played well at Barnet, but all of a sudden it goes from them really cool car journeys to having bantering Starbucks on the way to having a really good car school to I'm on my own here, and it's like you know, r so remembering like the reason why you're doing it and and just kind of getting through that grind. I think the everyday just just turning up every day is harder than people think, and that's in any job, right? You know, because you've all got stuff going on at home or whatever. I think but just making sure that you're at it every single day is a lot harder than you think mentally.
SPEAKER_04:No chimmate, thank you so much for it.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, Jeff.