Beyond The Box: Goalkeeping’s Untold Mindset, Mistakes and Madness
The mindset. The mistakes. The madness. This is football’s last line of defence - unfiltered. From iconic saves to brutal setbacks, Beyond the Box ® dives into the stories goalkeepers rarely tell, and no one else dares to.
Beyond The Box: Goalkeeping’s Untold Mindset, Mistakes and Madness
Glenn Morris: Still Number One at 41 - The Record-Breaker’s Secrets to Longevity & 124 Clean Sheets
Veteran goalkeeper Glenn Morris opens up on the art of longevity behind the gloves. From non-league beginnings to over 600 professional games, Glenn shares the mindset, habits, and humility that have sustained him across two decades in the Football League.
From embracing dips in form to leading through calm consistency, Glenn reveals why substance beats hype, how to build resilience through routine, and the perspective that keeps him grounded season after season.
Talking preparation, professionalism, and passion for the craft, this is a deep dive into what it really takes to stay at the top and love the game for life.
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I mean it's just a point in my career where I just went to Oh what this is it don't you potentially if you're coming out trying to think I'm gonna make that just I don't think it's the right point they just wanted something else from me they wanted me to be talking they wanted me to be that Glenn welcome to the show mate you right? All good yeah thanks for having me.
Rob:The cat.
Glenn Morris:The cat, yeah. That's a nickname I've had for a very long time, yeah.
Rob:And you didn't bring the cat in.
Glenn Morris:I should have brought a cat in. I didn't realise that you know it was that sort of show, but yeah, I should have brought a cat. O'Chi brought his wrestling pack. Oh no, I've let us down. I've let the team down a bit.
Rob:It's all good. It's all good. So you've got the clean sheet record, right? And we were just discussing at lunch about how possibly football's changed in many a year. I'm 42 now and we've seen football shift throughout the years. Now you've got to be a football player, a player great with your feet. What kind of changes have you seen in goalkeeping over the years?
Glenn Morris:Oh, loads. Um, I can remember when I was um, I think I was probably under nine when they brought in the back pass rule. So I played games where you could pick up back passes, like as a kid. Same. So it's like, you know, I mean, obviously it's it's obviously now that you have to be good with your feet. Um, otherwise it's it's you know, you're not gonna play as much. I think it's you you you're used as a as another centre back sometimes in certain situations, so you have to be comfortable on it. Um, and like I said, you've had to adapt all the way along. You know, when I first started playing in in old division three, it was literally squeeze up, kick it, and it was that was it, and you had to be able to kick it really far. And if you didn't, you wouldn't play. Now it's obviously if you're not comfortable with the ball, you won't play. So it's it's changing all the time.
Kev:That's a hard skill to learn, though, isn't it? Like going from being able to pick the ball up from back passes to then now essentially becoming like an 11th outfield player. Like, how did you go on that that learning process? Because it's a hard skill to pick up when you're starting out.
Glenn Morris:Yeah, I I think it's just you sort of you you adapt, like you said, you're learning all the time, and you're gonna make mistakes as a youngster, you know, trying to, you know, you know when you're playing out with your feet, but it's just that process of you know, knowing how you're gonna uh you know perform the next time you get out there. Are you gonna just kick it long, or are you gonna be brave enough to be able to play again and learning the the balance of the two of you don't want to make a mistake again, so you but you you've got to be able to be brave to be able to you know keep progressing, I think.
Kev:We we speak a lot about like this idea of having courage when you're playing goal, because I think in goalkeeping the the margin for error is so small, but and one thing that a lot of goalkeepers struggle with is having that courage to go and make mistakes and having that courage to play with freedom. So when you're playing in games and the margins are small at the top end of the game, particularly, how do you get yourself to play with that freedom? Because you've had incredible longevity in the games. There must be something from a mindset point of view that's giving you that freedom to just go and play.
Glenn Morris:Um, I think what I do now is I just I don't look too far ahead. I literally treat every um play like a different process. So, you know, like you'd you're always in, I don't I don't switch off one moment of a game anymore. Like I think when I was younger, I would like be lit literally thinking about other stuff where the game was going on, but now I'm fully engaged in the game, and every single play, I try and make sure that I'm doing the right thing in that moment. And if something goes wrong, I know it's easy to say it, but I just try and switch the reset button and just go, well, the next play, I'll just get back to that. Do you know what I mean? That's and that's how I've adapted from as I've got older, and I think it helps.
Kev:So, what what is that focus then? You're in a game, you're playing before you would think about, I don't know, random thoughts. Like when I was playing, you'd get random thoughts, and yeah, right, like what are you gonna have for dinner? Yeah, you know, what's what's happening tomorrow? Yeah, later on. What what's the focus point for you now? So you're in a game, what are you constantly trying to remind yourself of to keep yourself locked into the game?
Glenn Morris:Um, I think I'm talking. I think that's what helps me. It's just talking, even if it's to myself and the the players up there, I'll be talking to myself or talking out loud, but no one can hear me, but you're talking the whole time, trying to make sure that you're in the game. And if any moment my mind starts to drift, I just you know, I'm back in. I'm like, what are you doing? Like, come on, get back on this. You're talking to the left back, right back, whoever it is, and you I just that's the way I deal with it. It's I think it's a little trigger, like just talking.
Rob:Yeah, really good point you picked up on there. There's a few things that we teach in our people's edge programme, and I've been teaching for years, it's trying to concentrate on your next action. One of my mates says it, who's a top pro, he's like, I try and stay not too far ahead, not too far behind, like two seconds, and that helps him stay present. And he talks about like the communication. Uh, I don't know if you've ever seen it, like the method that you're using is called point and shout. Have you ever seen it in Japan? So when the trains come, they point and shout, and it's been known that there's less accidents, so they go doors opening, doors closing, people getting on, people getting off, and they're just pointing and shouting the whole time, and it's kind of that same thing. So you're constant, constantly concentrating, yeah, because you can't do three things at once. So as you're constantly communicating with either yourself or it's just to keep yourself present, right? And involved in the game the whole time.
Glenn Morris:And yeah, and I think I like as well, like when it gets closer, the play comes up, I'm I'm talking to the defense and the midfield or whatever, like, and I'm shouting at them. And I think it's getting them engaged, and you feel like they're I'm not having to do as much. If I'm doing that communication well, then I won't have to do as much. And I know it's a silly thing, but it genuinely is that like you literally can you know talking through a game sometimes. And I think that again, that it definitely comes with age because when I was sort of 23, 24, 25, 26, I wasn't doing that. Like it's I thought I was, but I wasn't.
Kev:That was gonna be my next question because there's a lot of young goalkeepers now who go into men's dressing rooms, and I think the stigma is when you're a young player, you can't make your voice heard because you haven't built that credit in the bank. Yeah. So, how has that picture changed for you being a young goalkeeper, maybe being shackled a little bit in terms of what you can say to other players, versus now as a more senior pro where you're probably seen more as a leader and like an architect in the dressing room?
Glenn Morris:Yeah, I think I've always like I've never really been a like a schmeichel type of goal, you know, like get out there and scream at the defenders. And I think that's not me. I think managers over the years have always wanted goalkeepers to do that. Like, I think they've said it to me, you've got to get out, you've got to shout at them when they do something wrong. And it's never really been my thing. I think I'm more of a you know, like encourager and like get, you know, that sort of style. And I think if that's your style, that's just don't try and be someone else. And um, I think you know, obviously the boys respect you more, and I think that comes with playing and stuff, but I think the goalies that you've seen that are coming through where you think, you know what, they're gonna make it, are the ones that that don't care, they're not quiet, they're not shy, they're you know, you can see them at 20, 21, 22, and they're doing it. And I'm looking at them going, I wish I did that when I was there at their age, you know what I mean? And it's they're the ones that will will go and go, definitely.
Rob:So hindsight's a wonderful thing, right? You just said there about you're not a shout or a screamer, but you go and criticize, right? Well, younger I was. But it's it's learning as you learn this stuff like we've learned now. Like if someone was doing that to you and the managers want that, they want you to come and scream and shout and basically have a go at defenders. But if you think if the if it was the other way around and the defenders are screaming and shouting at you guys, that was crap, that was wrong, and that was terrible. Would you be able to perform at your best? Probably not, because we work better with encouragement and praise rather than criticism, right? So you you understand that with more with age, like you're younger, you see everyone else. Obviously, people see younger players, see keepers coming out and screaming and shouting, they're like, Well, that's what I've got to do. But you understand when you understand human behaviour, we don't work that well with criticism, especially if someone's gonna put keep telling us we're terrible or that was crap and yeah, what the managers want us to do, rather than going, do you know what? This I better do better next time. It's okay, keep your chin up, keep going.
Glenn Morris:That's it. Yeah, I think that's the way I've been. I think is I think I get the better out of players by doing that way. And you know, I I think if a goal goes in, it's already happened. It's like after the horse is bolted. So it's like what you're getting out of that, really, unless there's like you can say, can you just get a little bit tighter, you know, make sure next time you're you're stopping that shot. But coming out and hammering them is like it's not really gonna be a benefit for anyone. And I think it's a bit of a deflection sometimes, but yeah, no, like it's um, you know, I've like I think Danny Bentley when I was at South End, he going back to the previous one, he was he was one coming through where he just stepped up to the plate as like a man at like 20, 20, 19, 20 years old, and you could just see that he was gonna be uh you know like a top goalie. And I think you know, you it's it's really like when you see a goalie like that, it's it's brilliant.
Kev:We we we spoke before this podcast about uh this X factor that some goalies have, and Rob and I mentioned it about how you can just look at someone or see someone, the way they walk, the aura that they have, that just tells you that they're gonna be a pro and tells you that they're gonna have a great career in the game. So you mentioned about working with Dan Bentley at South South End, right? South end, yeah. What did you notice in him when you're observing him and maybe other goalkeepers that you've worked with that makes them stand out from that aura and that mindset point of view?
Glenn Morris:I mean, he was just like it, he was an athlete, he was hard working, um, and he had thick skin because he was quite a bubbly character, and some of the older players used to get onto him a little bit, but it didn't, it didn't bother him. You know what I mean? He was he'd just stepped through it and take it on the chin and go out and perform and make saves in training. And I think you'd see other goalkeepers just crumble at that point. And I think um, you know, I don't know, like looking maybe at times it would have been me. Like if if you've bought like older players are getting onto you, you'd probably go into a show a little bit, whereas he sort of stepped through and went went on again. And I think that's um, you know, like he probably had you know very you know, very strong mindset, like resilience, and yeah, he's you can see why he's had a top career.
Rob:We asked this question beforehand. You just said mindset. What does mindset mean to you? So we talked about resilience and having resilience and mindset and good mentality. What what does that mean to you?
Glenn Morris:I think it's just everything. Like it's you know, a good uh mindset would be you know, professionalism, you know, what you're doing off the field. He like he would obviously do a lot of gym work. Um, and I know that that's but it's that you're gonna be improve yourself, you're gonna get better at every way, um, and you're gonna have that aura around you where it doesn't matter what anyone says to you, you know what you're about. And I've like, I think as I've got older, like and I'm quite old now, um I've I can get I can I can take it on the chin now and just go, no, actually, um I've got something to bring to the table. But I think when you're a bit younger for me, I was a bit like if someone was saying, Oh, I weren't this and I weren't that, I was believing it. Whereas like now someone says, Oh, you can't do this. Well, it doesn't matter, I can't do that, I can do this.
Rob:What's been interesting is I don't know if you picked up on it in the podcast that we've done so far. Most goalkeepers have talked about the importance of knowing who you are. Yeah, authenticity, authenticity, not wearing the mask. Yeah, yeah. Like as you get older, obviously it comes with experience and hindsight. What changed for you? Did you try and be someone else when you were younger? Or has it always been that way? Has it come with age?
Glenn Morris:Um, I think it's it just comes with age. I don't think I tried to be anyone else. I think that probably held me back, not it held me back, but like I said, uh, managers wanted me to shout and scream. Managers wanted something else from me. They wanted me to be taller, they wanted me to, you know, he's not this, he's not that. And I, you know, maybe I I couldn't be that person that they wanted. But I needed to focus on what I could be, which was, you know, just safe, tidy, you know, like do the basics well and just keep like a nice, tidy, safe goal and make some saves when I need to. That was that's what I think what I bring to the table. But it was at that point where it was a lot of managers would just only focus on what I couldn't do or what they thought I couldn't do in this. And I think that's a difficult process to go through when you're trying to like navigate your career as a youngster and you're getting told you're not this and you're not that. And I think back then as well, you didn't you had goalkeeper coaches, but some like I remember at Late in Orient, they wasn't full-time, so they're coming twice a week. So this we was in League One, you know, we had a part-time goal like in 2007 or six, or to be part-time goalie coach. So you felt like you was on your own sometimes, especially as you know, it's like the goalies, you know, like it's just two of you competing, you haven't got a full-time goalie coach, so the you just got the management, and you know what they're like. It's it's difficult. Like now it's changed. I think now you got you know, there's there's your goalie coach, you've then I think managers now realize that this is you know, I've not come across many managers now that you know don't understand the importance of goalkeeping. But back then it was Jesus, yeah, you'd get you get some stick from the management.
Kev:I think you mentioned uh a lot in what you said so far about this idea of authenticity, but also I think picking up on it your comfort in your own identity as a goalkeeper, recognizing that you're not the most extroverted in the dressing room, recognising that you're not going to be this big personality that has to come and scream at people, but you seem so comfortable in who you are and what you bring to the table. So, how have you had to wrestle with that from the beginning of your career without competing with what managers have told you in terms of what they want from you? How have you stayed true to who you are and how have you maybe shifted managers' view of what goalkeepers need to be?
Glenn Morris:Yeah, I think I think it was a turning point for me. It was um I was probably got released from South End. Um, I had a bad injury on my fire. It was I was out for like three, four months, just got back fit near the end of the season, got on the bench while we got in the playoffs. Uh, we missed out on promotion by goal difference automatics. We were at the playoffs, I was on the bench, got released, and I struggled to get a club. Do you know what I mean? Uh it was one of those moments where it just didn't happen. I nearly went and signed for Portsmouth. Um, I could have signed for Bristol Rovers, but I turned them down. I I um stayed at Portsmouth, I was on trial there, so I was gonna try and get a deal, didn't happen, didn't have anything, went to order shot as number two to Jamie Young, who's who's a really good goalie. Yeah, probably very well. Really, really good goalie. I had Ashley Bays got me, you know. I know him Bezo really well. He said, Come here, I'll look after you. I went there, and it was a bit of a turning point because I was about 30, I think. And you're on the bench, you know, you it's not going the way you wanted it to, but I just I could have gone on league, but stayed in the league to be a number two, not the best money. Um, and it was just a point in my career where I just went, you know what, this is it. Like, I'm gonna give everything. And it was like you did, I did everything I could. I changed my uh lifestyle a little bit. I mean, I wasn't a bad pro by any, but I made sure that I I did everything right, I was eating right, I was sleeping right, I was doing the gym, I was doing extra training, and I was just I was just gonna give it everything to to try and move up a little bit. And it's just I think working with Bezos helped. He he looked after me and got a lot out of me. And I, you know, to be honest, I owe a lot to him in that period because he made me come and sign for him. He's like, no, no, no, you come and sign. And it was it was perfect. And then, yeah, that just turned my career around really. Obviously, off the back of that, I went to I went to Gillinham and uh the first time, and it was just yeah, just turned it around really.
Kev:We had Bishon, um, we had Bishon recently on the podcast, and he mentioned about Bezos as well. And I think Bezos has got an unbelievable reputation in football for developing goalkeepers and helping them springboard their career. I wanted to get your take on this. What what is it about working with him that helps maybe regenerate things? And what did he give you? Because we're massive on like coach, goalkeeper relationship, we're massive on it. What did he give you from your perspective that helped you maybe find that fire again in you?
Glenn Morris:I think he made you feel good. I think he always made you feel like wanted. Like, I was obviously on the bench and Jamie Young, and we got relegated, but he had a really good season, and then it was it was a yeah, it was a weird one. Like he was he did fantastic. And but Bezo was always like making you just feel part of the team, the squad, special. Do you know what I mean? So you always wanted to do extra, even like you didn't want to disappoint him as well. You know what I mean? You wanted to make sure you was giving everything for him and and obviously yourself, but he I think he was uh you know a big reason for that. And yeah, and it the the sessions he puts on were were really good as well. It was it was yeah, it was spot on for what I needed at that point.
Kev:And what was that that you needed? Was it was it just good training or was it something else maybe like to to reignite that fire and that belief?
Glenn Morris:I I think it was just sharpness, you know. I was because obviously not when you're not playing, it was you was training like at full, you know, full tilt uh all the time. And it was yeah, it was like yeah, we did we did a lot of sharp sessions, as far as I mean, he was ahead of his time with like bandwork and weights, and he was doing all sorts of stuff like that, and we'd we we would graft and I felt like I'd come out of that period stronger than when I went into it.
Rob:So, how do you deal with being a number two? So we talk about number two mentality sometimes, right? It's all right when you're number one, but when you're number two, keep us playing well. What's the mentality there? How did you deal with that?
Glenn Morris:Um well I've I think I've dealt with it in two like different ways. I remember when I was at Leighton Orient, I was comfortable being a number two, and that's what was a bad thing. It was a negative because it was easy. I've been at Leighton Orient for years, and you just get comfortable riding that wave, and I wasn't there was periods when I wasn't bothered that I was if I was playing or not, and that was that's just me being honest. And and then there's been the periods where I've been a number two and I've just trained, like I said, full tilt, ready to go. If you get a chance, you're in there. And that's the mindset I tell anyone is that any young goalie coming through, you have to be ready because you only get one chance, and it could be you, it's gonna be out of blue out of the blue, you're not you're not gonna know when it's coming, and if you're not ready, that's it. And if you take it, it can change your career. That's and that's um that's the bottom line. And that happened to me at Crawley, like where I was went there as the goalkeeper coach, third choice, and then we uh Dermot Drummond was the manager, um, and he he pulled me and just said the day before that he's thinking of of putting me in because there was under pressure, went one in six or seven at the start of the season. He put you in, and if you don't take that chance, it's um yeah, you're not gonna get it again. And uh you know, we beat Luton, I think, that day 2-0, and that just I never I played every game since it was crazy. That was like was that eight years ago now? Maybe nine, yeah.
Rob:That's mad then. So eight or nine years ago, was you looking at when it you said he was number three and you was doing the coaching, was you thinking, oh, maybe that's the I definitely thinking that. I thought I thought I was done.
Glenn Morris:I mean, I was genuinely the goalie coach, I was third choice, but I didn't even train. I was just I was just the goalkeeper coach, and if anything went wrong, I'd there was I'd use me. But I think it was just because we was under the manager was under pressure. I think he he might have seen me do a little bit of a training, what maybe the day or two in the in the week before the Luton game. I did, I think I joined in, and I think it just changed his his mind a little bit and he needed experience.
Rob:Did it change you as well and have a shift in you?
Glenn Morris:Um not as a goalie coach, because I I mean at that point, I might my priority was the other goalies. I actually I felt really bad like for them too. That was Yusuf Mercy and uh Mitchell Beanie, and it was like I you know I had no idea that he was gonna play me until the Friday. And I was just I would say to Derma in the office, I was a bit like, you sure because you know you're gonna kill him a bit here. And he said, No, look, I need I need experience on it. We need to get a win. And I was okay, I'll you know, whatever you think. But at that point, I was I was you know, it didn't change me as a goalie coach. After that, I was still you know prior prioritizing them is what they needed. But what about as a keeper? Um I think as a keeper at that point, I was reignited like a sparking, yeah.
Rob:Because obviously that was eight or nine years ago, and now you're still playing.
Glenn Morris:Yeah, it did because I thought I was done, and then you know, you you could when you get that, you know, we beat Luton, I think, yeah, 2-0 that day, and there's that buzz again, and it you just can't, you know, you can't you can't buy it. And then when it's there and it just yeah, I think it did, it gave me another like another reunited my career, definitely.
Rob:So you've been in the the game a long time. Obviously, you must have had some times where you've been out of form or you've had some setbacks or adversity, which obviously it seems like you're in you're already thinking about the times I've got a few bad ones. How did you deal with how have you dealt with setbacks, adversity, mistakes?
Glenn Morris:I've had a really bad mistake when I was at Leighton Orient. Um, it was I don't know, it was against Trammere. Um, I think it was about 2007, I think. So we had it was just two goalkeepers. Again, we didn't have a goalkeeper coach. So we had me and Glenn Garner, he was a Welsh international, it was an international break. So he went to to on the international break. So I played. We had no goalkeeper, goalkeeper coach didn't come up to travel, so I had an outfield player warming me up in League One. Could you imagine that? And it's you come in for one game, I was playing one game, and I knew that he'd come back and play. And literally, after about 15 minutes, it was the windiest day at Tramir. The goalkeeper's got an indirect free kick. Uh, it'd be on YouTube somewhere, but he's booted it, it's gone over the top of the it's a bit like Ben Foster's one. It's gone over the top of the defenders. Defenders ducked, he's bounced, it's gone up, and I've touched it. If I didn't touch it, which again now I always know that if the ref's got his hand in, yeah, it's in you know, but back that you know, you don't think of them things until it's happened to you, but I got touch on it, it went in. And that was a bad one, and that was yeah, the manager wasn't happy. Um what was the fallout from it? How did he go about giving it? Oh, he publicly came out and and said, you know, battered me in the press in in the changing room. And I mean it was a mistake, but it was it was one of those things. But I think where you just get one game, and it was at that point when I probably was comfortable being on the bench, and like I said, I didn't have I'm not making any excuses, but no goalie coach there, you know, like you're on your own and you're getting battered, it's horrible. And um, I think that one took a bit of a time. And the worst thing was is because it was international break, Sky Sports News just showed it because there was nothing wrong. And they even went to the goalie, um, the goalie who scored uh Gavin Ward is goalie coach as well. He he scored. He's he's at Cardiff now, isn't he? Yeah, yeah. So he's the one who scored. They went to his house, you know what I mean? They he was everywhere. Um so that was that was difficult. And then I think obviously at Late and Orient, that just that defined me then. Uh you know, that was me done, really. Um even though I was there for a few more years, that one mistake was held over me. You know what I mean? From the management to the fans to the just everything. So it was just really difficult to come back from that. Um, whereas I think if it happened now, I'd just laugh it off. I know it sounds silly, but you'd like it's one of those things, like you'd laugh it off. But back then it meant the world, like um, and that's just how you you just can't you struggle to deal with that. And then I think the whole game after that, I don't remember a thing. You know, when you're just not playing the game, this is automatic pilot pilot, and you're just going through the motions. And you know, that happened a lot when I was younger, I think. Sometimes you'd be like, oh yeah, you're just not even thinking about it, you're just going through it.
Kev:Yeah, what you're talking about there is like attentional blindness. So, like when when we get a threat or like something negative happens, yeah, we put the blinkers on and we just literally zone in and we completely forget about what's going on around us. It's almost like survival mode. Yeah. It sounds to me like you had this one moment of like trauma where you've conceded a goal, you're probably worrying about judgment and looking around the ground wondering what people are thinking about you. And that's probably the reason why you don't remember the rest of the game. I don't remember it.
Glenn Morris:Yeah, yeah. I couldn't tell you anything else about what happened in that game. I don't I know we got beat three something, 3-0 or 3-1, I'm not sure, but I couldn't tell you what the other goals were like. It was yeah, just automatic. And um, yeah, you know, thank you know, thankfully it doesn't happen anymore. I think you just have to yeah, park it up if it happens now and just move on to, like I said, move on to the next play.
Kev:So you mentioned that game was like quite defining in terms of your latent orient career, and I'm sure that that's that's probably happened to a lot of goalkeepers out there where they have one game, like I hate mentioning it, but like Loris Carras at Liverpool with the Champions League final, like he's a great goalkeeper in his own right, but that one game will define his Liverpool career.
Glenn Morris:Yeah.
Kev:How do you go about rebuilding your identity and rebuilding your self-belief when something like that does happen, then it goes out into the like the public domain?
Glenn Morris:I think it's really tough, and I I struggled with it. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie, it was difficult. Um it's hard to change, you know, a whole fan base's opinion or management or whoever it is. Um, and it's that trust. I think that because I remember I just don't think that the manager at the time trusted me after that, and that was gone. So once it's gone, I might as well left then. But because I was a number two that was happy being a number two, there was there was always another contract. So it's like the best thing that ever happened to me was leaving, yeah, Late in Orient. Um yeah, Russell Slade released me, yeah, 2010. And it was the best thing, really. But yeah, it's um it's not easy trying to change that. I don't know, I don't know how you how you do it. It took me a while, but then obviously, like I said, now it's it's it's a different it's a different thing. You you just you concentrate on the next game and making sure you get everything in order again. You start restart the process and go again. It's like pressing on and off and go again next. Whereas I think you take it into the next game, you already you you you don't turn off the computer. Do you know what I mean? Like so after that tramme game, I didn't I didn't press reset. I just I went into the next game, probably still low on confidence. Whereas now you just turn it on and off, you go in and start again. It's afresh.
Rob:Have you ever done any mindset training or psychology, or is this all stuff you've just learned from?
Glenn Morris:No, it's just myself. I think it's what you learn what's good and what's not good, and as you again, I know I am really old, so it's as you get older, you just I wish I could have spoken to myself when I was younger and and and guided them through it, but it's obviously you can't. But um, yeah, I've just picked up you know what's worked well for me, and yeah, that's definitely been it. Um yeah, 100%. I think as well if I'm going on a different tangent now, but sleep's big for me. I've I I have a I have to have an afternoon sleep on a Friday, and most to be honest, most days. Um You did say you are getting really old. Yeah, but um it does help. It definitely helps, I think. I think it's um yeah, just like I said, it just makes you feel good going into the next day's training or the next game, and you just you feel a lot fresher from it.
Kev:See, it's interesting you say about sleep, right? So a lot of people don't know this, but if you get less than eight hours of sleep a night, I was reading this this thing the other day. If you get less than eight hours sleep a night, your risk of injury goes up between 20 to 30 percent.
Glenn Morris:Yeah, and I I I would agree with that. I mean, I'm yeah, I had a lot of injuries from like 22 to 28, 29, and I probably wasn't sleeping that well. I probably wasn't eating the right foods, drinking the right drink, and getting enough sleep. And it's been you know, like now I sleep too much.
Rob:Well, what kind of hours do you sleep now? It'd be interesting to know. You said about the shift when like the mindset shift, and then something happened, then you changed your diet, you was like, you looked at yourself. So, what's your sleep like now? What's your food like now? You said about drink as well, what kind of you yeah, what kind of changes you made?
Glenn Morris:So yeah, I mean sleep, I would I would normally come home from training and obviously I'd pick the kids up from school and then I'd go for a sleep at say four o'clock till half six, um, and then it would be literally dinner, and then I'd go to bed at maybe half ten, eleven, get up at half seven. So I I'm getting quite a lot of sleep in, I think. It's and it just worked for me, and then like diet-wise going back again years ago, I mean I've never I've never been a big alcohol, I've never done that, I've never been drinking beers, but I used to I used to drink coke a lot, and I, you know, and I'd have like lots of snacks, like sugary snacks, and there was no, I'm I'm not blaming anyone, but we had no help from obviously dietitians or anything, and but you know it's not healthy, so it's no excuse, but I'd come back, I'd play on the PlayStation, I'd sit, I'm I'm you know, living on like on my own, effectively with my girlfriend, oh, who's my wife now, but she would be at work, so you'd be playing PlayStation, and you'd have a bottle of coke, some cookies, and you'd sit there and go through that, and you'd think, you know, like you look back now, you think, what am I doing? You know, like and I used to go out. So my mum and dad used to go out on a Friday. Night for a meal, and I would go with them, and I'd have fish and chips on a Friday before the game and a pint of coke. And I like I look back now, I think, what am I doing? Like now it's completely different. You know, like I'm I'm making sure I'm I'm sort of counting calories and looking at what's best for for me, and you have health in the club of what your diet is. My body fat's gone right down. I mean, I think I'm at about eight and a half percent body fat. Whereas if you'd have gone back to 10-15 years ago, I don't know, I wouldn't want to think what I'd be. You know, you look at pictures of I can see that I was overweight, and that kind of helped, definitely not.
Rob:So do you feel better now being 41 rather than when you were 30 due to the nutrition, sleep, water, etc.?
Glenn Morris:Yeah, definitely. I think I've noticed it. Um, yeah, like I've I feel like I've gone on another level with with that, and uh I do a lot of stretching, a lot of yoga, which has helped um, you know, with being you know, you have to be supple and be able to move around if especially as you're getting older, if you if you can't do the spread saves, you're you're in trouble. So yeah, all of that. The food is has definitely made me feel better, you know, like what you're eating, and like um Thursdays, Fridays, I'll sort of load up with a bit of pasta and and and then I'll earlier on in the week it would be more a bit lighter. But you know, you can you can have a few treats, but I'll I'm I'm not making excuses like I used to. Like if I trained hard or had a game, I'd I'd I'd eat I'd eat some rubbish and and make myself feel like I I deserved it when really as you're getting older you've got to be careful what you're what you're eating. I eat a lot of fruit as well. I think fruit's good and drink a lot of water.
Rob:How do you feel now? Do you feel like a 20-year a 20-year-old or not? Do you like how I can keep going for years or are you noticing a difference?
Glenn Morris:I have my moments, I think um sometimes you can you can have a few aches and pains in the morning. First thing is you get up, you're gonna in your ankles and your joints, and that's normal. But um I I genuinely feel really, really good. Like, not just saying it, like I mean, um I think where I've realized that you have to just you have to work harder as you get older. So I've I've gone my I've I've probably put up to my load every year and always trying to improve something. So I'm like, I'm whether it be like gym, like bench press, or if it's this, or I've I've added something to try and take me up again. So I I feel that's helped, and I've yeah, like I used to make an excuse that, oh yeah, my shoulders are sore, I can't do the bench press. Where really was it, or was it just an excuse not to do it? So you know, I try not to have any excuses now. Like I'd I'd just like to go full in and leave it all out then, mate. Yeah, I can't have any regrets then if I do everything right.
Rob:Looks he talks about his bench press, so I'll have to ask it.
Glenn Morris:I'm not really um, I don't know what I think my maximum is 95. I'm not we just blame sports summers and say they they kept him at 95. I'm not big, but I'm trying. That's the thing, I'm trying, and that's good for me.
Rob:You can always improve, but so here's one for you. We talk about potential and stuff. Uh we always go, Oh, I want to reach my full potential. When I ask players, what do you want? I want to hit my potential. Obviously, 41. Do you ever go, oh, I've hit my potential? You're all you I always think you're working towards something that like you said, there's always something that you can improve, there's always something different you can do. The mentality, do you think, do you ever think, oh, I've hit my potential now, or you're always trying to I'm always trying to improve, and I think that's where you've got to be.
Glenn Morris:I don't know. Like, I mean, am I at my physical peak? I don't know, but I'm I've I feel like I'm hitting good numbers. Like we have the heart rate that that tracks how many dives you do, how quick you get up, and how fast you run, and all the things it it you know it it yeah, the jump height. Um, and I feel like I'm that's still improving. And I I don't know, I mean, I don't know. Am I I probably am not at my peak, but I'm trying to just keep improving. And I think that's all you can do. Little wins, and yeah, that's that's all you can do as as any any athlete, let alone as a goalkeeper, is just try and just keep getting personal bests, and that's what what I'm trying to do every all the time.
Rob:Massively agree. If you said to Ronaldo, is he hit his potential? He'd probably say no, he's still working and striving towards it, right? And the best way someone explained it to me is that we don't ever hit potential, but we we hit potential for moments in time. Like you take that thing, you make that top corner say even we hit perfectionisms for moments in time, but we're trying to hit this potential and we don't really know what it is or where it is. What's your thoughts on that be interesting?
Kev:I think so. I think everyone has everyone has unlimited potential to an extent in terms of like their mindset and the way that they are. I just think there's a difference between people who get really close to it and people that hardly ever get close to it. And like that's one thing that I've picked up from your journey. Like at the start of your career, you didn't know what it took to get to your potential, and it's taken moments of adversity and maybe turning points, major turning points on what we call the hero's journey to figure out what those key things that you need to change were. And now that you've put those things into your game, you've achieved the longevity that you have. Whereas there are other people, other goalkeepers out there who are limited in their career because they don't do those 1%. I think everyone's got potential. I just think people tap into it differently, and depending on how much you do it, that ultimately determines the outcomes that you get from your career. And it's a mad one because I don't know what your thoughts are on this, but I always think that time is a massive commodity. It's like one thing in life that we can never get back. So I'm putting words into your mouth here, but I assume that you'll probably look back on your career and go, towards the end of it, I got absolutely everything that I could out of it. Whereas I will be at your age one day and I will look back on my career and go, there was so much that I left on the table because of the differences in the way that we approach things.
Glenn Morris:Yeah, I think I'm half and half. I think I look back at my early part of my career and think, I could have done more. Whereas like now, I'm not leaving anything, I'm doing everything I can. And there's no way, yeah, I'm not gonna have any regrets on that second half of my career, that turning point. Since then, there's not I won't have any regrets on what I've done. Um, but yeah, I mean it's I think it's interesting because like as a sort of taking your point a little bit, but like goalkeeping, like hitting your potential is hard because sometimes if you're trying to chase um like your potential, then you'll you'll try and do things in a game. Do you know what I mean? Like I think I've realized now that you don't have to chase a game, you've just got to let the game come to you. So if you if you're going out trying to think, I'm gonna make loads of great saves today, I'm gonna go and take every crook like corner and cross. It's not the right I I know you can say I'll be I'll be positive, but I don't think it's the right mindset because you're gonna go and you're gonna go and chase something, you're gonna make a silly misjudgment. Um, whereas like think now you just you let it come to you. And if there's no saves, there's no saves. You've got a clean sheet. That's a that's a win. I don't, you know, it doesn't matter. You don't have to be the hero every game. You just gotta make sure you're ready for when that moment comes that you can affect, and you and then you take it, and then you know that's where you how you reach your potential, I think.
Rob:Got a couple of questions from what KP said, and then what you just said there. So KP mentioned the hero's journey. We always talk about how people are on their own journey and their setbacks, adversity, and mentors that take us through. And you said the setback was your turning point, and every hero's journey, there's a turning point. So, a couple of questions. Who was your mentors and what did they help you with? And then you said about chasing the game, it was one big one that I used to do, make a mistake, get back in credit, yeah. Or wafers, keep away, yeah. Like, and I used to try and come out for balls that I should never come out with, and I used to play worse. So, how do you get that mentality when you can just go? And it's really hard just back to normal. Is that a hindsight thing and an experience thing? So, a couple of things, mentors, who was yours, why, and how'd you get back to you've made a mistake, stop, don't chase it?
Glenn Morris:Yeah, I I think mentors uh for me it's a difficult one. I'm probably like I had my dad, who wasn't a goalkeeper, he would just you know, you have a lot of dads that I used to watch uh see from kids that would you know give them loads of advice, give them lots of opinions, and it would just blind them a little bit. Uh and I've seen that with goalkeepers as well coming through where the dads just get too involved. Mine was more just a laid back, you know, like gave you like just simple advice. And he and he yeah, he really helped. Um, you know, if you had a mistake, he really helped with how you deal with it. And yeah, I think he was, you know, probably quite advanced with that sort of stuff. You know what I mean? He would just you know make you feel more relaxed about it, you know, like it doesn't you know it doesn't matter, and he'd move you on and you you try and he'd help you and forget about it. In terms of goalkeepers, I mean we had um we had Ashley Bays and Scott Barrett, Late in Orient. Um so that they were my goalkeepers when I was coming through. Um Bezo, obviously great guy, but we had Scott Barrett as well. He was he was thinking he was 39 when I was 17, and he was just I used to look at him and just think he was a Rolls-Royce of a goalkeeper. He did every he was an he was an old man in my eyes. I mean, he's younger than I am now, but you know, like he just was, you know, laid, he was the sort of goalkeeper I wanted to be. He was laid back, he was chilled, he just had he just had an aura about him, and I think I always like looked at him and looked up to that that sort of a goalkeeper. Even though I had Ashley Bay's there, it was the opposite, he was the more Schmeichel-esque, and I you know, you could have gone down that route, but that wasn't me. So I think that's you know, that was the two. And what was the other question I've I've gotten? There was another question about chasing the game.
Rob:How do you you make a mistake and instead of chasing the game and coming for crossing and never come out? How do you get back to that? You said about the next action and what you setting. Yeah, did you ever used to chase the game when you were younger if you made a mistake? And then how do you deal with that now? Because I think that's an important one for young people.
Glenn Morris:It's it's difficult. I mean, you definitely used to chase the game. You know, you'd you'd be you'd make a mistake, you'd give a goal away, and you think, I've got to make up for it. And you'd be like, um, you know, you'd be out there, you'd be doing this, you'd be bringing someone down, or you'd be, oh, it'd just be a mess. And then that's how it's like just it snowballs. Whereas, yeah, like you said now, it's that reset button, like I said earlier, it's just literally you have to just go next play and turn it on and off, and it's difficult. It really is difficult. I mean, I think like there's little like little things you can do sometimes that goalkeeper coaches wouldn't tell you to do. Like, if I know it sounds silly, but um I'll tell like younger goalies this sometimes. Like, you know, like you come if like it's the corner, it's it's just coming over the first man. They want you to come and get it, and you would come and get it, and you they say shout, you know, shout keepers. I'll say to the like sometimes you don't have to shout keepers because you're in a bit of an indecisive moment. Just cut, you know, come over and if you can punch it, punch it. The man at the near post could edit away. If you shout keepers and it's a mess and he leaves it and it could someone else then goes in, these sort of things always happen after another moment, bad moment, you know what I mean? So sometimes you have to play the game a little bit where you would you wouldn't you, you know, you I wouldn't tell a manager, a manager wouldn't tell me to do that, a goalkeeper coach wouldn't tell me to do that. But that's little things like that is what you know you sometimes do, you know, little tricks to just make build your confidence in, you know, like you don't want to come and make a mess of something, you know, you see just just little little tricks like that, but yeah, it's hard.
Kev:We spoke a lot about your your dad and how he had a massive influence on you because of the way that he was with you as a kid. And Rob and I, we've spoken extensively like about our relationships with our dads in terms of our our goalkeeping journey. So Rob's was he had his dad behind the goal kind of barking orders. My dad was always in that car journey home, giving me that advice. So we had two different experiences and we've spoken about the pros and cons of that. What was it about the way that your dad was with you that allowed you and shaped you into the goalkeeper that you are today?
Glenn Morris:Yeah, I he was just yeah, he was um like laid back. Like I said, he he was there. If you needed, if you needed advice, he'd give it to you, but he wouldn't give it to you if you didn't ask for it, if you know what I mean. And but he would be he'd be there obviously years ago, yeah, he would stand behind the goal, but he wouldn't bark orders. Uh he would just stand there. And if I if I needed him, he'd be there. You know, if you just like was that right, Dad? You'd be like, Yeah, yeah, it's fine. Yeah, like oh next time maybe you you could have done this. This is what like real young age. I think there was when I went to Chelten, you parents weren't allowed to stand behind the goals, you know. Like it was you had to go on the side of the pitch, but yeah, he I mean he was perfect for me. Like I saw loads of other dads get too involved, and the car journeys, and there'd be kids crying, and they'd be getting that wasn't my experience. That was us, yeah. That wasn't my experience. Still cry now journey with that. I mean he got me through some tricky moments in terms of like I think like talking to Cholton, that was the difficult, like that was hard. It was a lot of pressure on you, and it was sometimes I'll be like, I didn't want to go. My dad was like, Look, it's a great opportunity, you don't want to like let this go. Like you're at you know, Chelten was a premiership team then, like you hit this is a big opportunity. Like, if you don't want to do it, that's fine. But don't want you to have any regrets, so like you know, he'd he it talked you around to a few things because it was it was a lot of pressure, and I remember like youth team manager was a bit was a bit harsh on the goalies, so it was a difficult time then, yeah.
Kev:What what made Charlton Hart? Was it just the relationship that the manager had with the goalkeepers, or or was it the idea of academy football because there's so many goalies out there now going into the academy system, and the pressure is ramping up because of social media and clubs seeing goalies as as assets, aren't they? Really? The numbers.
Glenn Morris:Yeah, I think it was just the pressure of it. It was um, I remember I was I was probably like under 15 playing under 17 football, so I was playing art, but it was the manager who would be hard on you, and it was like you it was it was difficult, you know. Like I said, there was no goalkeeper coach with you, so you're on your own, you you're getting hammered at 15 by the under-17 manager, it was it's difficult, and then you feel you go into your shell, it doesn't make you feel any better, it don't make you come out and go, you know what, yeah, I'll prove him wrong. I think at 15, 14, you you'd just go into your shell, and it it didn't help me, definitely didn't.
Rob:Question for you on leadership. So, as a a senior pro, obviously you're in a leadership role by default, and like you was a goalkeeper coach, and obviously you you probably help younger players now. How do you help with leadership in the team or how do you mentor players and what problems do you see with younger players? What is and what does leadership mean to you?
Glenn Morris:Um, I like to lead by example, I think. I've like to set a good example and and to to lead that way. Um I'm you know, I I would I'd pull people individually, and if there was things I felt that they needed to be said to them, I'd I'd do it in that way. I'd I wouldn't like to do it in a big group environment. It's not really my my style. Um but yeah, you see things, you see, you see um, you know, things that players are doing, not what you what I would feel would be wrong, and you know, it might be things that I've done in the past, and I'm thinking, no, you shouldn't really be doing that. And I'd pull them and say, look, maybe, maybe don't do it, do that because this is what I saw when I was your age, and sound like an old grumpy man, but you I think you have a uh you know what's you know, responsibility responsibility to do it, yeah. You know what I mean as a as an older player, you see it, and I if I see something, I have to say it. I think, yeah, and yeah, that's my leadership style. I mean, people come to me as well and they ask my opinion, and I'd always give it. And you know, it can even be like the captain might come to me and and and say, What do you think? And what do you think of this? And you'd you'd you bounce off each other, and the older players would sit down and have a coffee and talk about it, and that's that's the way we we do it.
Rob:How do you see how football's changed during the years? So obviously we're talking about 2005, 2010, now it's 2025. What do you notice the big differences in goalkeeping and football is now?
Glenn Morris:Um yeah, professionalism, I'd say um, like I said, like I mean, we're going back, what's that, 20 years? So we didn't have a fitness coach, I don't think, at Late Norm. We had a part-time goalkeeper coach. Yeah, we had a Tuesday club. So we'd go out on the you'd go out and have a drink. You know, the players would go out and have a drink on a Tuesday after training, a Sunday club, maybe there'd be drinks then, it'd be more like a social environment. Um, whereas that's not that that's definitely not it now. You know, it's you everyone's more professional, really. I mean, you get the the odd one or two, but on the whole, it's yeah, it's a different world um from what it was in that way. Um, in terms of goalkeeping, like I said, it's yeah, like that. I mean, it's just gone up a level. Like the coaching back then was more like jumping over hurdles, dives, lots of diving. You do lots of diving, dive, dive, dive, dive, dive. That was your work on a Tuesday. Whereas now it's you know, like you're getting lots of sharp, sharp work and game-related stuff. Um, and there's more thought process into it. You're watching videos, you you're doing all of that stuff, you're looking at what the opposition are gonna do. That's not that's I mean, you never did that. You never looked to, I don't even remember having a meet team meeting about another team. Like, it just didn't happen until I don't know, maybe 2011, 10, well, around that time.
Kev:Do you do you think that's for the better, though? Because like there are some goalkeepers out there who believe that you know the modern approach to goalkeeping, as they call it modern, nowadays, like, because they haven't been exposed to that in their youth, but don't feel like those things completely benefit them now in the present. Have have you taken on board a lot of that stuff, or would you say that there's still things that you enjoy from maybe those old school days that you still hold on to?
Glenn Morris:Yeah, I think you can take a bit of it, but um I mean you'd be silly not to. I mean, there's lots of good things from the old days um that you can you can you can still bring into it. And but yeah, you have to be able to adapt, you have to move on. You it's definitely for the the better, definitely. You know, looking at videos where you're filming, training, and yeah, looking at what you're doing wrong, just the little small details is I mean I like the way we do it at Jillindum. It's nothing like a big criticism, it's it's just all trying to help and it's all positive. And I think that's the way it is. You don't want that video nasty, whatever way it is, you don't want that, I don't think.
Rob:Do you feel there's more pressure now due to social media, more exposure, YouTube? Do you find it's different now compared to them? Do you feel more pressure? Do you feel more judgment? Do you feel more expectation? Do you notice it? Or and do you notice it in other players as well? So obviously, from years ago to now, do you find that they struggle with that? Or how do you deal with that?
Glenn Morris:Yeah, I think that's yeah, I'd say because obviously there was no social media back then. Um, there was barely mobile phones back then. But yeah. Um yeah, so there you wouldn't have had the comments, so you wouldn't be you unless you went and looked for it on a message board or whatever it was, you wouldn't you wouldn't wouldn't see it. And I think you'd definitely seen players that have, you know, if they get in a bit of abuse, can go like down like that. Um we had it in COVID as well, crawley, there was like there was no fans in the ground. And it was that you know, you'd see players be able to really turn it on with no fans there and be really good. And then when you come back to fans, they wasn't the same player. So I mean it must make a difference to some people. Um, yeah, and that's just in your mind. That's a mind, that's definitely a mindset, 100%.
Kev:So which type of player are you then? Because I I completely agree. And there was they did loads of like research into this over COVID where they were looking at like player behaviors when there was a crowd and when there was no crowd, and they found like certain players based on their personalities either rose to the occasion or crumbled because they needed that crowd pressure to perform, or the lack of crowd pressure led to a drop-off in performance. So, like, what type of goalkeeper are you? Are you someone that thrives off having that crowd there, or are you someone that would you know prefer to kind of pee in that bubble and I don't know, I think I used to, I was just tunnel visioned, I just concentrate on the game.
Glenn Morris:So I didn't it didn't bother me whether there was a crowd or not there, but it was just literally you'd focus on the on the ball and the and the game in itself. Um but I having said that, like the the I think the worst type of games you can play now is the behind closed doors training games. Um they're you know, I'm I'm not a big fan of them anymore. I don't know what it is, it's just that it's just not for me. I think it's yeah, they're the they're the they're the some of the most nerve-wracking games, then ones. I don't know why. It's just it's weird. Um I've always found that it's a bit strange, but yeah, maybe, maybe I I do like a crowd then. I don't know. But yeah, I I I don't know, but I just concentrate on the game and the play and and um yeah, go from there.
Kev:Arguably, like your biggest period of longevity then has been at Crawley. What what was it about the club and your time there that allowed you to stay in the team for so long, get the experiences that you gained there? What what's your secret basically to being a goalkeeper that has longevity?
Glenn Morris:Um I think I spoke about it earlier. Resilience, I think, is like um, yeah, you ever I mean there'd be new managers come in and they'd look at me and they'd go, he's 37, oh he's 38. We're gonna probably need a new goalie. Um and it was it's sort of it's become a bit of a running joke that it's every year, you know, like here we go again, and I think I just got used to that, and that, you know, I'll prove him wrong, I'll I'll prove myself, not even just them wrong, I'll just make sure that I'll, you know, if they start another goalkeeper, I'll be ready if a chance comes along, then and that's that's the way I looked at it. I didn't beat myself up, I just I just knew that I would be um nothing's changed overnight. I haven't suddenly got really old and I'm not not good enough. And I just made sure that yeah, I just went into the next season attacking it.
Kev:Are you proving them wrong or are you proving yourself right?
Glenn Morris:I I guess that's for other people to decide. Um, but yeah, I I I like proving people wrong. I think yeah, you like to be able to, you know, there's like I said, over the years, so many people, you know, focus on what I'm not good at. But it's like you just like to concentrate on what you are good at, and I think that's that's a big message to get out to you.
Rob:So what are you good at? What are your biggest strengths? Because for me, it sounds like from listening to you, it's consistency.
Glenn Morris:Yeah, and that's what you want, as well keep it, right? You want consistency, consistency. That's what I yeah, I it's you do the basics well, consistent, try and keep as many clean sheets as you can, and literally just yeah, keep it nice and clean and tidy and make a big save when it comes along. That's that's what I like to do. I don't, you know, I I you know I still like to, you know, come for I feel like I'm come for the right balls. I make I like to sweep up. Um, I've got a high line, I like to do all of these things, but you know, I just make sure that it's the right thing to do at the right time, not go, yeah, I'm I can sweep up, so I'm gonna sweep up every time. It's like you have to make sure you're trying to do the right thing in that play, in that movement. You know, if that's the that cross is for me, I'll come and get it. If it's not quite for me, I won't come and get it.
Rob:It's sounds like you're decision making from experience. You've got a lot of experience with decision making and knowing what you're good at.
Glenn Morris:Yeah, you're still gonna make mistakes, you're still gonna get it wrong, but you just you try and limit it and you know, and and obviously deal with it after that must, you know, mistake. You that's gonna happen.
Rob:So, what does the future look like for you now? What are you is it still continue playing football for as long as I can? Have you looked at after football? What's the journey look like for you now?
Glenn Morris:Um I don't know. Uh it's the bottom line. Um, yeah, I I'm I'm tunnel visioned. Um I'm playing and I'm a player, so I'm thinking of that. What happens after that? I I don't know. I mean, I'll I'll have a look at it when it comes to that point. And I think I'll know when it's time to to hang up the gloves, but you know, I'm not it's not in the minute, I don't think.
Kev:What what will indicate to you that it's time? Because I think from all the goalkeepers that we've spoken to, like pros, they all say different things in terms of oh, the sharpness maybe isn't there anymore, or they seem to wake up in the mornings and they're more in pain, or they haven't got the drive to get out of bed and and go and do those things anymore. I know we're looking into the future here, hopefully into the distant future. What what do you envision will be the things that you look for when you're making that decision?
Glenn Morris:Um, yeah, probably be out of body feels. Um yeah, and if you know, like if if you're waking up and you're not really looking forward to going to do do this, you know, because goalkeeping is full full on. I don't think people realise that. You you're going out at training early, you're training at full, you know, 100% every day. There's no like uh lot light sessions, you're at you've you've thrown yourself into it. You're going, especially in League Two, the travelings up and down the country. So there's a lot of things you're giving up, you're giving up Christmases, you're giving up and if I'm get if I'm feeling that I don't want to do that anymore, then it's the time. But yeah, I don't know what it'll be. It could be anything. I mean, I've seen other goalkeepers just say they know when it is, you know, you had Ben Foster who said they had that game, and you know, I don't know. I looked at that and I just I thought he he might have gone a little bit too early for me. Yeah, same. Yeah, uh, but that you know, he doesn't, you know, he's he's got his own reasons. But I I think sometimes you can have those negative thoughts where it might be a shot that you you you just you didn't get to that day, and you think I you can think, oh, I would have got that five years ago. But it might not be, it might be just one of those things, and then you have, and you know, I I've had that where I've let something in and I've I thought, you know what, I would have saved that. But then the next play, you make a save and you go, Do you know what that was that was a pretty good save? Like maybe I was beating myself up a bit, so it might be I've still you know, so you just you've got to make sure you're having these little inner battles and you know, don't think too far ahead, really. You know what I mean?
Rob:Just next play, that's it. Do you still love it? Like that we talked earlier about like having fun and the enjoyment and playing. Do you still love it and look forward to going in and training and yeah, yeah, that's it.
Glenn Morris:Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I love everything about it. Yeah, I mean, we've got Darren uh uh Ibrahim, the goalie coach, and yeah, I mean works just tough, it's hard, but it's it's good fun, and you just enjoy coming in. Sessions are great, and yeah, every you know, it's perfect, you know. Like there's like even the training grounds really nice. The grass, you know, you're coming out, you're looking at it, the grass is good, you're diving around. There's no better job for me than making them saves in in training.
Kev:Have they still got that prison-looking uh type building at the training grounds? Yep, they have, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, the training grounds like an old prison. Yeah, yeah.
Glenn Morris:Yeah, it's like so you have the academy games there, right? Some kind of prison break. Yeah, yeah. Because it goes round, doesn't it? In the yeah, but no, yeah, it's I'm I'm love it, I enjoy it. And I think if you didn't, then that would obviously you'd you'd call time on it if it wasn't if it wasn't fun anymore. But yeah, no, I'm still enjoying it.
Kev:One one amazing thing about your career is you've always kind of been in League One, League Two, right? So you haven't had that experience of I would say the glitz and the glamour of maybe Premier League and top end the championship football. Do you think that influences your perception of the game and maybe your resilience in the leagues that you've played in? Because a lot of goalkeepers come from the top downwards and they struggle to adapt to maybe worse facilities or style of football.
Glenn Morris:Yeah, I I think so. I mean, like I've seen it the other way where I did one year in the National League, and that was a real struggle for me. And I know it's only one league down, but you'd be going to like I don't know, I'm not trying to disrespect anyone, but you'd be go to a club and the floodlights wouldn't be very good, and changing rooms would be really small, and that was a bit of a, you know, like it was hard to get your head around that. That was and that's not a bigger jump. So I could imagine coming down from the the top to to us would be even even bigger, yeah, definitely. I mean, obviously, we've still got some places in League Two, which is not ideal you go to, but yeah, I think you you're used to it, definitely. I'm um I've seen it, I've been to every ground and every place, and you're ready for it. You're ready for what's to come.
Kev:Have you ever turned up to a ground? And and the reason why I'm asking this because I've been through this myself. I already know, yes. Ever turn up to a ground and you've built this picture in your mind of what it's going to look like, and you've pictured a decent pitch, decent bloodlights, and you've turned up there, and all of those beliefs and those visions have just been violated straight away, and you've got to pick yourself back up. Yeah. Violated.
Glenn Morris:For me, it's like the that, and then it'd be the weather that it's windy and it's no, it's all not, you know what I mean? That's you got that, it's all open, the rain's coming down, and you're just looking at kind of pitches, this, and that, and all these things can be outside factors. But I think again, going back to you can't control that. So you have to go into what you have to back yourself that you know what, I'll I'll be good in these conditions. So you just have to try and trust yourself that you'll be able to do it. Whereas when you're younger, you're like, oh my god, this the wind's gonna kill me. This is gonna, the pitch is gonna kill me. That blood. Standing behind a goal is gonna keep abusing me. It's all of them things, but it's now you you you just crack on with it.
Kev:So you started giving different meanings to things then. So, like you mentioned at the start of your career how maybe these things might have impacted you. Whereas now, because you've got all this experience, the meaning that you give to things that don't sit right is different. So the bad pitch, for example, you're not looking at that like you did before, going, oh, this could be a massive problem. You're now convincing yourself, actually, yeah, I'll be I'll be all right because I've I've done it before. So what things are you reminding yourself of when you turn up to a ground and the goal mouth is horrible? Because there'll be a lot of goalkeepers listening to this and watching this going, Oh, bloody hell, I've been in that situation before. What what techniques, what tricks, what things are you doing in your own head to bring bring the best out of yourself?
Glenn Morris:Yeah, I think you're just you're backing yourself. I think you've done it in training, you know. You've you I've trained in horrible conditions. So you know you can do it. I'll train the gloves are slippy and the ball's moving, and this is happening. So you know that you can still, you know, you might pad it down, you might not this little you get your body beyond, and it's silly, but make sure you get your body behind the ball. You might not try and catch that three, you push it around the post, and you just you you just make sure that you just simplify it a little bit and yeah, like I said, back yourself and you just you'd you'd look and say, Oh, I will be able to deal with this, you know, bet better than maybe their goalkeeper would up the other end, he's gonna have it just as bad. I'll try and you know make sure that I'm I'm performing, you know, better.
Kev:When I say to you, EFL clean sheet record and Gillingham oldest player record in the same sentence, what does that mean to you?
Glenn Morris:Oh yeah, it's it's when you look at it that way, you know, it's special. You don't oh you don't like you don't set out to to to break any records, but um yeah, you know, we had Andy Hessenthal who was the oldest player at Gillingham, he's like a Gillingham legend. So I felt a little bit bad, you know. Like it's like I was didn't really, yeah, I felt like they should have retired that record for him. But you know, like to have taken it from him was yeah, was was really good. And yeah, the clean sheet record was I didn't know about it until someone said, and that's another thing. You'd look back at the end of your career and you'd be like, yeah, really pleased with it. And but yeah, you know, I just you know, hopefully I can add a few more to it and yeah, and try and make it unbreakable.
Kev:You sound so chill about it, and we me and Rob, we always speak about process over outcome. So a lot of people have a goal in their head that they're trying to achieve, but we always say if you focus too much on the goal and you you almost take yourself away from that goal because you're so set on getting there. But when you focus on like the journey and the process, it maximizes your chance of getting the outcome. So you mentioned about how you never really thought about getting the record or the clean sheet record. Do you maybe think that's a reason why you ended up getting it?
Glenn Morris:Maybe, yeah. Yeah, if you if you're trying to, yeah, if you're really trying to chase something, you you're like, you yeah, it probably won't go the way you want it to. But yeah, you just like I said, that last 10 years of my career has just been just concentrate on that next game, that next play. Everything's just so basic, it's unbelievable. And I think that's what's um what's helped me be consistent, definitely. And I would I would teach that to or try and help any other young goalkeeper coming through to to be that way because it definitely helped me.
Kev:Have there been any challenges, maybe away from football in in your life that have impacted the way that you've had to be in the football environment? Because a lot of players struggle sometimes in their own lives with various things like family, finances, whatever it is, and that then has a knock-on effect on their career. Because obviously, with your longevity, there must have been periods where things have happened and you've had to adapt.
Glenn Morris:Um yeah, I mean, I don't know really. I mean, maybe like having children, like that probably was the biggest factor. It's obviously you're you're just selfish, it's all about you, and then all of a sudden you've got children coming into it, and it's not really that important. You know what I mean? That's what's more important is them and what you know what helps them. And I think that was probably the biggest factor for me. And I think that was again, that was probably the turning point, really-ish. Yeah, she's my eldest is 14 now, but around that sort of time you're looking at it a different way. Um, so yeah, that that was probably the only thing. I mean, I've been you know quite lucky touch wood with with everything else. But I think that might have helped, you know, you've got you know, you're quite a chilled life and uh quite level. So if if you're too up and down in your own life, maybe that's difficult. Maybe maybe people struggle with that. But yeah, I think if you're level-headed and you're level, you you can perform at that at your best, maybe.
Rob:Gives you a massive shift of perspective, doesn't it? Yeah, and then you think, what the hell did I do with my time? What did I do before I used to seem so busy? I've got naps.
Glenn Morris:I'm lucky with that. I did get my naps. I called it working.
Rob:So did it give you is that what it was a massive shift of perspective, do you reckon?
Glenn Morris:I think so, yeah. I think so. Um, yeah. I mean, I haven't played golf uh since my eldest was born. So you know, you you have to, you're not, you can't be selfish, you know what I mean. You're looking after them, you've got family, you're doing what's best for them. You're you know, I didn't move up, I had chances to maybe go up north, but I didn't. We were settled down south, so I just stayed down here so they could stay at school, and you're looking at all them things, you know. I think if you're up and down in around around the country, people do it, and I look at them, I don't know how they do it. You know, it's so hard on everyone. I think you you you give up a lot as a family, which you obviously Christmases can only go on holiday one time a year. Other missing, you're missing weddings and christenings and god knows what's you're missing, you know. I mean, it I even like I've nearly missed the birth. I didn't the manager Paul Starrick at South End. I remember speaking to him and he was like, Yeah, like if she goes into labour on a Saturday, you're you're missing it, which you know, things like that, you know.
Rob:Yesterday, he's about to chop it is potentially it could be on a Saturday. I'm like, well, literally, you've got to go to the it, it's a lifetime event, right?
Glenn Morris:Yeah, yeah. I think it's different now. I mean most of the time.
Rob:What would you be done in that position? What would you have done in that position?
Glenn Morris:I was gonna play because it was back then, and I he was like, you know, I missed the birth of my children, so yeah, he was very like on you know, and yeah, loads of people did miss the birth of their children for football back then, but now you see it as pretty much regular that if your wife goes in, you're you're missing the game. It's not that important, is it? Do you know what I mean? It's not really, it shouldn't be, and um, but yeah, it's it's all those things that you're giving up that people don't realise. So yeah, I you know definitely shifted me mindset and mentally for you know family life.
Rob:Yeah, because football is a lot of the unknown, a lot of uncertainties. You say you're shifting up and down, but people don't see like the the inside of football, they don't see the the career moves, they don't see the long journeys, the weekends away, the sacrifices because they go, Oh, you're a footballer, what have you got to worry about?
Glenn Morris:But they don't see they don't see the grind, no, they don't see in the the the Saturday or Tuesday performance and not seeing what goes on behind the scenes and everything else you're giving up and which is fair enough. I mean, like, you know, you choose this lifestyle, and but yeah, you you just gotta be, yeah, it's a tunnel vision, isn't it? You working on working during the week and ready for the game on Saturday, and that's the way football is.
Kev:Do you enjoy those Christmases in, or would you prefer to be at home? Because some players that I've spoken to actually say they like training on like Christmas Day. Probably the ones without kids, but yeah, I'm I'm a bit, I don't know.
Glenn Morris:Like years ago, you was always in on Christmas Day, and it's been a new thing where you're getting Christmas off. Um I can see either or or, you know, like I've had it though where we've not gone in on Christmas Day, and then Boxing Day we've been terrible. So it's like, yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure. I'm not sure what the the best thing to do is sometimes is be with your family. But is it could you come in for a quick, you know, early start and get out? I don't know. I don't like you know, I'm easy. Um I my family understand it. I think that's the thing. I think where we've been in the other side where it's always in, they know the score. Whereas, yeah, a lot of a lot of people just expect Christmas Day off now, I think.
Rob:Last question: if you could give a younger keeper free bits of advice from everything that you know and learn, what would it be?
Glenn Morris:Um, three three bits of advice would be yeah, I mean, definitely work as hard as you possibly can, and that, you know, and that's quite a loose thing to say, but in in terms of you know, training, um, lifestyle, if you want to, if you really, yeah, I'm talking at like a a youth sort of player, I'd say, you know, like that sort of age, you won't be talking like an under nine, but um, yeah, train lifestyle, diet, sleep, everything, put everything into it. That would be one piece of advice. Uh be definitely uh uh a mindset of you know, don't, you know, don't beat yourself, don't get too high, don't get too low. Try and keep yourself level-headed. Um, because I always find that if you're if you're too high at the highs, the footballing gods have got a way of slapping you down. Do you know what I mean? Like, oh yeah, I'm brilliant. Yeah, I've done, I've cracked it. And I just feel like they just go, no, you haven't, you're back, get back down there. You know, you know, that so keep yourself level, be humble, work as you know, like I said earlier, work as hard as you can. And then the third piece advice would probably be just yeah, just yeah, dealing with mistakes is is the one and and and concentrating on on those plays in the game, you know. That's that's the one that every play is, yeah. Just you you you break it down like an NFL game for me, you know, like this boom, you know, play's gone, next one. But then don't switch off. Because I I'd never I don't like, you know, I've heard goalkeepers say that they have they can't concentrate for 90 minutes, but I think you need to be able to, because I think if you're if you're switching off for a little bit, well you got you know you've got to get back into the game. Whereas I like I'm switched on for the whole 90 minutes, play by play, ready to go.
Kev:One final question from me. You mentioned mistakes. What is your number one go-to technique or philosophy around dealing with mistakes given the experience that you now have?
Glenn Morris:So mistakes just happened, it's gone in. It's I think it's just you for me, it'd be like I've I'd have a drink by the post, so I'd go back to the post, I'd have my drink moving water bottle, I would tell myself, next play game's restarted, and and you just go going again. Obviously, you got kickoff, so you're going again, and whether you're getting the ball back, it's just next play, that next kick will be good. The next next play, just get straight back into it. So I'm just making sure I'm telling myself to not think about it. You know, it's done. I think you know, just switch off from it, it's gone. Uh I like I said earlier, you if before you'd have been thinking about that mistake, thinking that you're gonna get dropped, you're thinking that the manager thinks this, the fans think that, you can't think like that. It doesn't matter. You you know, you might be a hero in the next play, you might not be, but just make sure it's not another you know, don't want to keep going down that and the way you stop that is by doing the correct thing in the next bit. Nice.
Kev:So reset behavior, getting your bottle, yeah, having a sip, self-talk, setting yourself to focus on the next play. And I suppose underneath all of that, it's about your relationship with failure. So the relationship you've got with that moment before it might have been panic, whereas now it's oh well, this happened to me before, so now I know how to deal with this moving forwards, and then you focus on that next action.
Glenn Morris:Yeah, that's it. That's it. 100%, that's it.
Kev:I love that. Glenn, thank you so much for your time, man.
Glenn Morris:Thanks for having me. That's been good.