Beyond The Box

Declan McCarthy: The Man Who Made Goalkeeping Go Viral & Fulfilment Over Fame

• The One Glove • Season 1 • Episode 1

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Goalkeeper and 1.9m TikTok powerhouse Declan McCarthy opens up on his unusual journey, switching from outfield to full-time keeper at 21, then building a career on and off the pitch. 

We talk resilience, judgment, and how social media shaped his path. From handling mistakes to finding fulfilment beyond contracts or followers, Declan shares an honest take on modern goalkeeping. 

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Follow Dec McCarthy on Instagram & TikTok. 

Dec:

Uh uh less about it. Like if uh if someone whose opinion's worth listening to, then they're not listening. But here's what frustrates me whether you put this in it or not. But you just get like pumpless just desperate about a goalkeeper. It's like biggest weakness.

Kev:

Um hi guys, welcome to the Beyond the Box podcast. My name is Kevin Patel. I'm Rob Blackman. And our first guest is Deklan McCarthy. Dek, how are you, mate? You alright?

Dec:

All good, thanks for having me on.

Kev:

Thanks for coming on, man. We appreciate it. Uh, you are the OG Squad's resident social media influencer. Tell us a little bit about how you got into goalkeeping, how you started out.

Dec:

Uh so I started goalkeeping uh pretty late. I know a lot of people talk about being a late starter, but I started at the age of 21. Um, so that was uh extremely late. I've been doing goalkeeping now for seven years. Started making uh videos when I first started out playing in goal, um, and it kind of snowballed from there. So yeah, seven years in now and uh yeah, managed to somehow turn it into a job.

Rob:

So why did you get into goalkeeping? What I know you went for an academy and then you turned into a goalkeeper, right? So why goalkeeping?

Dec:

Yeah, so I grew up as a uh Bournemouth Academy player from the age of 12, um, sort of dipped in and out of other clubs around my way, Southampton and Portsmouth being a couple. Um got to 18s really with Bournemouth, which is when obviously you start making those decisions about pro contracts, and um yeah, I probably physically just fell short of uh yeah moving on to being a pro as a as a centre midfielder. Um played a couple of years non-league football um after falling away from Bournemouth. Um played national south football, which is pretty pretty good standard of football as a midfielder. Um, but to be honest, I always wanted to be a goalkeeper. So even at the age of 12 when I've just signed for a what was at the time probably a League Two club, um, and then Bournemouth went right up to the championship. Even through all of those years, I wanted to be a goalkeeper. Not really sure why the answer to that was. I mean, I used to just chuck on a pair of gloves maybe every six months and jump in goal, and yeah, I was alright, to be fair, considering I never had any coaching. But um yeah, I always I just loved the idea of uh I don't really know what it was. I just I just like the idea of jumping in goal, to be honest.

Kev:

Was there a moment though when you were starting out and you kind of had that first moment of putting on the gloves where you went, oh, I could see myself doing this in the future?

Dec:

Yeah, uh to be fair, yeah, I think there is. Um, so my dad was previously uh chairman of Winchester Football Club, so a Southern League club. Um, and at halftime I used to basically jump in goal for the players because there'd be no number two goalkeeper. So I would jump in goal when I was literally probably 12, 13 years old on a on a Saturday. Obviously, Bournemouth had the games on a Sunday, and I'd jump in goal for 15 minutes at halftime and they just smash balls at me. And um I honestly I loved it. Like that's probably the oldest memory of me actually putting gloves on. But I mean, that sounds like I went in goal before 21. That was as far as it went, and that probably happened three or four times, you know, through those years. So that was probably the moment where I probably thought, yeah, I would I would that's probably what sparked it to be honest, the idea of me wanting to go in goal. Um, and also I I mean I played with some good goalkeepers growing up, but I always felt like I would naturally pick it up. Um, so when I finally did, I would probably go as far to say I was a natural, but yeah, I definitely picked it up quicker than than most would.

Kev:

Because it's like it's a massive change, isn't it? Going from like playing centre mid, which is obviously like 360 vision, you're playing with your feet around the entire pitch, and then you're going in goal at 12, 13 years old and just getting peppered in a shooting drill and getting muddy. Like, what was it about the shooting drills? And I suppose being in that situation that you enjoyed? Was it just getting hit in the face all the time and getting muddy?

Dec:

Or I th to be honest, I think where I started so late, I think it was more the idea of improving again because when I grew up playing as a centre mid, I felt that technically I probably peaked, I got to the point where I'm not really going to get any better as a midfield player. Um, but it was the idea of starting again as a goalkeeper, and you start from scratch, you know, you've never been coached, you've never been taught, and it's not you guys both play golf, obviously spoke about that off-air, but um, it's that same feeling of you know, when it things just start to click a little bit in. You ride that, mate. No, I don't know, I don't know what that meant. Goals a lot harder as well. But um, yeah, so I I think I think for me that was a a huge factor of I'm still like that now, even like you know, I think I'm a decent goalie now, but I still have that hunger to improve and get better and actually look at the the small details of it. So that was definitely a huge, huge part of it for me.

Rob:

Yeah, so I've got a question for you. So it's called Beyond the Box and it's about mindset. So the question is what does mindset mean to you?

Dec:

Uh the first thought that pops into my head is resilience, which I think is huge for being a goalkeeper. I I don't think you can have a career in goalkeeping now unless you're extremely thick skinned or you know resilient. So for me, I definitely feel like I have that built into me. I suppose starting at 21, there'd be a lot of even players I played with and uh coaches and stuff who would look at me going from being a a decent centre mid to jumping in goal, and you know, people definitely had their opinions, and even now people have social media in it, they're gonna have their opinions, no problem. So yeah, mindset for me is um the first thing I would say is resilience, yeah.

Rob:

Okay, and you said about the social media side, so obviously social media there's a lot of judgment. How do you deal with the judgment on social media? How do you find it? How do you deal with it?

Dec:

Uh honestly, I I I couldn't care less about it. Like if uh if someone whose opinion's worth listening to, then then I'll listen. But to be honest, the majority of uh hate comments or whatever, well not that I get much, honestly. I might get 1% of people who don't like what I do, but they usually donut. So in terms of dealing with it, it doesn't bother me at all, to be honest.

Rob:

So, how did you learn to deal with it? Because obviously a lot of goalkeepers are listening to this and they struggle with like the judgment. Like we we called it the four feet in football, right? So not meeting expectations, judgment, failure, and the unknown. So how do you how did you learn to deal with judgment? Because that's what I see. A lot of young goalies struggle with judgment and expectation. So how do you deal with the judgment?

Dec:

I think it's different with that. Yeah, I know I get what you're saying. I think I think it's different for everybody. So for me personally, it's it's from within, it's it's myself and and my drive to impress wasn't for coaches, wasn't for what is now fans or following, and it was my dad, to be honest with you. So for me, I cared more about what my dad had to say, or and also for me being comfortable with how I work as a goalkeeper or how I grew up as a centre mid. Um yeah, I suppose dealing with it was it's hard to say really, because I've never I've always been quite a confident, sure of myself person, and and I know I'm a good player, I knew I was a good midfielder growing up. So for me, it was if I could impress my dad, I would feel like I'm doing all right, because uh I know people say, oh my dad was quite hard on them growing up and stuff, but my dad was a ex-professional sportsman himself, so yeah, he was he was extremely hard on me, which was that's good. I mean, I don't uh I don't have any issues with that now. I think that's what's made me how I am today and a confident person and you know a lot of backing in what I do. So yeah, I don't know if I went off topic there a little bit, but that was good as well.

Rob:

Like yeah, like what you're saying about like your dad. I see even pro players now struggling with their dads. Even in the Premier League, the struggle with uh dads and uh the car journey like I did my car journey home and stuff like that. Yeah, horrendous. Yeah, I had I thought I had a good game then. Dad I did alright, didn't I? Yeah, and then it was like, no, you're terrible, you're a rubbish, and you're like, oh my god. Yeah, so why did you feel like you needed to impress your dad? Did you feel like was it the judgment side of your dad and the expectation maybe that he had on you? I told you we're gonna go deep.

Dec:

Yeah, but I think expectation's the downfall of a lot of players who never maybe fulfill what they felt they should have, and obviously there's that expectation from partners, family members, coaches, mates, everything. But um, I don't know, really. I don't know, it's more so a case of you just want you want them to be it. Wasn't our expectation, it's just you want them to be I say proud, not too soppy to say proud of you, but it's more just you want them to be happy with what you're doing and and that you're actually like I used to if it was training Tuesday, Thursday, game on a Sunday, playing for Bournemouth, but I would be physically so far off uh my age group, I was the smallest in my age group by a long way, so I would be doing weights on a Monday, running on a Wednesday, running on a Friday. So, like, I don't know, maybe it was fulfilling that. And I I definitely see now as I get older, I haven't got kids or anything, but the amount of effort my mum and dad would have put into me, you know, having an opportunity to become a professional footballer. So, yeah, I suppose it's more a case of doing them a service of yeah, I'm you know, I am trying to to do my best, and yeah, hopefully, I mean it worked out fine with what I do. I didn't become a professional footballer. Um, but yeah, that's that's kind of my feeling towards it anyway.

Rob:

And how did you deal with the how was your car journey home like?

Dec:

Oh, horrendous. Am I allowed to swear? Should I not swear? Like, honestly, like it's funny because like I'm not saying I was the hardest life ever, because certainly not had a lovely upbringing, but like I hear some people, friends of mine, people have played with, and they say, Oh, my dad was really tough on me. My dad was an ex-boxer, so like his his level of discipline for me was like way, way deeper than your generic dad, who gets a little bit stroppy if you didn't score a goal or whatever. So, not taking anything away from those those situations either. But yeah, for me, my dad was so he fucking ate me for saying sorry, he'll he'll ate me for saying all this now, but like he was so yeah, like you know, like you say about the car journey home, and I'd go home and I'd be like crying to my mum and saying, Yeah, he's not taking me no more. I don't want him to, you know, he's not bringing me no more. And because I would feel so much more relaxed watch it uh with my mum watching, but my dad wanted to be involved with me progressing, so yeah, it was difficult. And I remember like playing, I remember playing Oxford away for for Bournemouth as like uh under 14, say, and uh I was having an absolute shocker of a game, and I would just like you could see it if you watch the games back, because we still had games filmed, you know, I'm not that old. So we was watching the games back, and like I would just be like scanning over to where my dad was stood because I knew like I couldn't care less what the coach says, which is wrong, really. That was completely wrong. It should have been more about what my coach was thinking, but yeah, I would always be like, you know, like that all the time, thinking, God, he's he must be eight in this because I'm playing so bad. Um, and then when you're playing well, you get the other end of it, you know, you can't wait to get in the car, can you? If you have a blinder, you know what it's like, and you know if you've played well, and you know if you've played bad, so yeah, no, it was um difficult, yeah, for sure.

Rob:

I see parents, so like me for my brother, you know, my brother, right? So my nephew, he plays, he's at Luton, and he's the same thing, he'll look over to his dad, and I feel like he's like a Roman emperor, and he'd put his hand out like this, and it'll either be one of them and uh thank God for that, yeah, or they could be the other way and be like, oh dear, yeah, yeah.

Dec:

Same feeling, yeah. Oh walk home, yeah, yeah, exactly.

Rob:

Yeah, yeah, it's it's a it's a tough one because we obviously don't age group are listening, but a lot of the things the fear the fear comes from like the parents minded as well. Like the same thing, it was it wasn't about coaches, it was about what my dad thinks, and I still deal as I said, I still deal with uh Premier League players now who are still dealing with things from their dads, which is crazy. And but the the offset is you're more likely if you have a stricter if you have a stricter parent, the more likely you are to go into professional football, even though it causes uh there's always uh upside down.

Kev:

That's what I was that's what I was gonna ask though. So your dad was that way with you in terms of being very disciplined and very strict from his boxing career, and obviously some of that translated over into the relationship that you had with him. Do you think though that maybe that's contributed to the success that you've had in terms of like your discipline to post on social media, the opportunities that you've forged for like forged for yourself?

Dec:

Yeah, yeah. Like it's hard because I don't want to, you know, I'm not trying to come on the podcast and make it sound like I've had the horrendous upbringing because it's not like that at all. Of course, it's just that that sportsman discipline. Um, but yeah, no, 100%. Like I, you know, we speak about it even now, me, my mum, and my dad, and we'll say, you know, nothing can really bother me because I've grown up with my dad. So like it's definitely shaped me to be the way I am and have the confidence I do have. And it's not delusional, I think I'm a good player, but it's like it's more just yeah, there's it's difficult. Um I mean, it's it's sorry, not difficult, it's it's easy enough for me to deal with criticism and that fear factor, if you want to call it that, because yeah, it's it's it's shaped me to be the way I am now. So and I don't have any um hard feeling towards that. Like I a lot of people, like a close friend of mine will moan about how his dad was and you know, wish things were different. I don't wish anything was different. Like for me, I I'm so happy with how my life has turned out and the way I am as a you know, sportsman as a person. I I've got no I'm thankful if anything, you know. I speak to my mum and my dad, and I'll say, like, you know, so I wouldn't change any of that. Regardless at the time, I'm crying my eyes out, and you know, everything's the worst thing ever, but that's just being a kid, isn't it? Really? So um, yeah, no, I'm I'm happy with how how I ended up, yeah, if that makes sense.

Kev:

Well, you've done done all right for yourself. Well, yeah, no, yeah.

Dec:

A little bit of luck along the way, of course, and everybody needs that, but yeah, no, it's it's turned out with the life of Riley.

Rob:

How do you deal with expectations? We talked about like the judgment, the criticism, and obviously you're on a big platform where you put yourself out there to be judged and criticized, which for anyone listening, I always think there should be teaching points as well in this because like pros I work with, they worry about judgment. I'm like, well, if you want to go to the highest level, you actually need it. You need to get eyes on you, right? You need to be judged, you know. And judgment and criticism is a part of the price that you pay, and the higher you go, the higher the price you pay. So I always think this should podcast should be about little teaching points as well. So it's actually look forward to judgment rather than like shy away from it, and judgment. Running towards it rather than running away from it. That's exactly it. Yeah, run away, run towards it. Like if you want to get anywhere in life, you need to be judged. You want to go for a job, you have an interview, you get judged. People are gonna judge this, good or bad. It's just the that's just the way it is. People judge, and if you don't do anything, that's it, you remember do nothing, is people still judge you. So that's the way it is. So, how do you deal with like the expect like the expectation now of like for example, you're playing, you're playing in non-league, right? Yeah, and you're out there on a platform. Do you feel like there's an expectation on you to perform?

Dec:

Yeah, there's like there's there's added pressure, um, for sure, because of the league I played in last season. Every the major I'd say the majority would know who I am, um, because of the social media stuff. And um, yeah, to be honest, so I mean that's football though, to be honest with you. So, like, you know, if you turn up, the away fans are not going to be nice, are they? And if they know you make videos and you know you've you've done all right or you've got a follow-in, their initial assumption is he's he's probably a bit of a tool and uh not a very good goalie, but he's whatever. So dealing with that, I it doesn't I don't see it doesn't bother me. I mean, it's it's not nice to have a load of people behind your goal saying XYZ about you, but like uh every other goalie deals with that as well. So I'm no worse off. I'm probably just a little bit better known than the lads who play in my league as a goalkeeper or around the league. So um yeah, I do a bit okay. It's not nice when you have a clanger because naturally everyone does, you could be a Premier League goalie or you could be a Sunday league goalie. So you're gonna make mistakes, you're gonna do things wrong, and when I do something wrong, it's it's just more highlighted. I would the same way that uh a top top goalie, it would also be more highlighted. So that's fine by me. You know, it's it's not it's you know, I don't know how to say it, other than it's it's no big deal as part of the game. Um I'm not an idiot to think that I'm gonna go the whole season and be perfect. I don't think you know the best goalkeepers in the world, they're not stupid enough to think that either. So yeah, it's not nice being called names and and and all of that stuff, but you sign up for that when you're a goalkeeper, to be honest. So it's fine.

Rob:

And how do you deal with the mistakes? If you make a mistake, how do you deal with it?

Dec:

Um I'm pretty good at moving on quickly. You're conscious that you've made if I've made a mistake in the season and led to a goal or whatever. I mean, I'm I'm pretty good at moving on fast and and not lingering on it, not thinking about what I could have done. I'll look at that after the game if I've if I film the game. Um but yeah, I'll deal with it okay. But like I it's easy to say I'll switch off to it, but it's not that easy, is it? Sometimes, like, you know, if you've really cost your team, and thankfully I didn't do that too much this season. But um yeah, just try and move on. I don't I don't chase the game. That's that's the biggest thing that I've found within within goalkeeping, especially this season. If you make a mistake, you're not in control as a goalie. You can't go and I mean you can get the ball, but you can't go and affect the game massively. You have to be patient, you have to wait, and ultimately it might not come. You might make a a stinker and then you might play 85 minutes, not touch the ball, and that was all that happened. But you know, I see some younger goalies more often if they make a mistake and then they're suddenly thinking I've got to nullify it, got to correct it, and they start coming for things like crosses that they shouldn't be going after. Yeah, it's just yeah, but like I mean, I get it because you almost want to you want to almost erase what's happened and try and you know, oh look, I can do something good. But I think for me, I'm if I make a mistake, it's fine. And if it doesn't, if I don't make a save or I don't have a good rest of the game, then that was just a bad game. On to the next one, really.

Rob:

I've got one more for you come in. Do you ever post your mistakes or like learning points? You said, like, for example, which was a really good point, because you've got the camera, you can you can watch your clips back, right? And it's something we do, and you can go into feedback or judgment, so you can look at it and go, okay, uh maybe I could have done this and could I done this better, rather than just going what most young goalies would do, oh so bad. Yeah, so you can go in two ways. So you make a mistake. Do you ever have you ever posted your mistakes?

Dec:

Yeah, I'll post yeah, it doesn't bother me. Like again, I'll post mistakes because firstly it's good to see, but also naturally that performs well too. People are happy to see people mess up. So people loved it. They love doing that, yeah.

Rob:

So they do the people love the negative.

Dec:

So so yeah, it's to be honest, uh I've had a good season, so I've not actually had a load of mistakes to to chuck in there. So um yeah, but I have no problem with showing goals, you know. What do people think? You're perfect every week, no chance, you're never gonna concede a goal, no chance. So, like, yeah, I post some mistakes, it's fine. I'm not posting everything, but I don't post everything I do in the game either. So, yeah, I don't, yeah, I don't have any issue with that. I put out a video at the start of the season, I basically dropped a cross under the bar, my centre backs actually helped me out and cleared it off the line. But I basically said quite literally what you were saying is it's okay. Like it's it's you know, I'll get it wrong. I'm a content creator or whatever. Premier League players get it wrong, non-league players get it wrong. Everybody gets it wrong, so it's you know, it's no big deal, put it that way.

Kev:

We we talk a lot about this um idea of acceptance mentality. So, this idea that you go into games knowing that you're gonna make mistakes, you're gonna screw up, things are gonna inevitably go wrong, and we then break it down into like macro and micro. So you're gonna keep the ball off the pitch, but nothing's gonna come of it, and that will be a micro mistake, or you might drop the ball under the crossbar and it goes in the goal, and that that's a macro mistake. How and it sounds like you're in that place where because you're in front of the camera and you've been doing it for so many years now, you're so comfortable with just failing in front of everyone. How have you got to that place? Is it just merely through experience and being in that situation over and over again, or is it something that you've had to teach yourself over the years?

Dec:

Um, that's a good question. Um, yeah, I probably I think where it's difficult for me because when I started producing content is when I started playing in goal. So naturally you have that, like, you know, you want to still look decent, you know, you still want to look like you're a good goalie. And even in those first, say, two or three years in particular, I wouldn't have been a good goalkeeper. But I was effectively starting the same way that a 12-year-old would start, you know, as a kid, and you've only just put the gloves on. It's the same for me. So, yeah, I guess those first two or three years, it would have been harder for me to accept and show mistakes. But like you said, I think I've just got so realistic with what goalkeeping is. And you know, I was chatting to one of the guys out in America who's a pro goalkeeper, and he had the same sort of feeling that I did. And is when you know when you're on good form, and I think every goalkeeper's been there and you feel unstoppable, but you are conscious that there will be a bad one. You're not, you know, you're not you're not stupid enough to think you're gonna do this for the rest of your life and you're never gonna make a mistake. So yeah, it's just I think it is just that comfort from experience and you know, doing it over and over and over again, and and also probably just seeing it. Like, I I probably felt that because I was posting videos and I was in people's faces and stuff, I almost had to be perfect. Whereas then I start seeing, you know, won't name people, but Premier League goalkeepers, players that are playing in the Champions League, balls go through their legs, drop catches, you know, make mistakes every week, really. You know, that's just the reality. So when I see, you know, a top goalkeeper doing it, I think, well, what have I got to worry about? I started later than the majority anyway, and I'm also not playing in the Premier League. And the thing that frustrates me more than anything is like people's um understanding of the position. Unless you're a goalkeeper, I think it's I just don't think you should speculate too much on goalkeeping because it's so hard, it's just different sport, in my opinion. So, yeah. Don't know if I answered your question there, but no, it is more or less.

Kev:

You did 100%. I was gonna I was gonna ask, like you mentioned about what goalkeeping is, what good goalkeeping is, and like the expectations that people have of the position. Do you think coming from from an outfielder's perspective, having played midfield and then sticking the gloves on, that you had to learn what good goalkeeping was? Because like obviously on social media, you see all the guys they're always posting the saves and the worldies, yeah, flying around sidewinders everywhere. Yeah, but then you watch an Allison or you watch a goalie on on TV, and it's nothing like that. Yeah, like did you have to learn that?

Dec:

Yeah, I think I was I think I was talking to Miles the other day about it in um in America, but I think the the the biggest thing I've learned probably over the last three years is like you said, what actual goalkeeping is. And when I first started posting stuff, I'd just started going in goals, so I didn't actually know. Like for me, I I didn't have the answers to what proper goalkeeping was because even to this day I've never really been coached. I've had sessions put on for me, but no one's told me how to play in goal, it's all whatever I've learned along the way. Um, but it's even like me with the content I put out now, there is an element of entertainment here and there, but the majority is I'm playing in a game, I'm training at a club with a you know a live session, or I'm training properly. And I know the content world's getting more and more saturated, but I I just feel like it's probably my fault as well, because I was definitely one I'm still one of the the biggest in the world to do it. Um, but I just think there's there's too much entertainment rather than um the reality of what goalkeeping is now. So yeah, even like the lads I train with, they'll they'll probably see me more realistically the opposite to what most people see me. So when new people meet me and they want to, if it's a training session away from a club, they think I want to hit side volleys and dive into the top corner, and I'm the opposite. I would rather the session wasn't even filmed. Like I'd rather just let's do game realistic stuff, let's just do you know, actual goalkeeping. So yeah, I had to I had to definitely learn that along the way, and and like I said, I'm I'm probably also it's like a double-edged sword. Like, I'm probably also a big reason why people don't necessarily actually do proper goalkeeping. So um, yeah, but I think over the last few years I've yeah, I've got a lot better at that. But yeah, that's I I don't know if I answered it again, but no, no, you're totally all right.

Kev:

It's amazing that you're so self-aware to recognise that that you know the content that you put out is a snapshot of moments in games that people then get to see on social media. Yeah, and we we talk about this a lot in terms of like how much you know Instagram, TikTok, YouTube has influenced younger goalkeepers' perceptions of what success and failure looks like. So they make that world-class say, but they make it look a little bit better than it actually is when they could have caught it because they've seen that on a TikTok or a YouTube. You're obviously very mindful of that. And you mentioned about how you'd prefer maybe just to have a normal session where things aren't filmed. How can younger goalkeepers that maybe love the sexy side of goalkeeping in the top corns, how can they start to move back into that realistic realm of you know, sometimes the simple catches and the simple passes, that's what what good goalkeeping can also be?

Dec:

Yeah, I think again, uh I think that's the majority of goalkeeping. Like, I think the majority of it is around you. It's the horrible side, taking crosses, 1v1s. Very rarely do you get like for example, last season I had a really decent season. Um I got like a players player, managers player, but I didn't make I didn't make a single top corner save, like in the whole season. I had a busy season, the club got promoted, done really well. But it just for me, everything I saved was around me. Everything I saved wasn't up in that top corner that unfortunately social media there's a place for it, don't get me wrong, it'll come and then you you want to know that you can still get there if you have to, but like it doesn't it's all I want to say as far as it doesn't happen, but rarely happens, even even in like look at the Prem, you don't it's not often you see a goalie going whatever hand, top hand, whatever, but plucking it out of the stanchion, it's normally it goes in and you just go good goal, like you know, that's that's how it is. But um, as for kids growing up now, I'd say, yeah, try and try and stay around good goalkeepers, try and try and stay around good goalkeeper coaches who really really know what they're doing. Um, I wouldn't go as far to say don't watch content creators because you know we're not all bad as well, and you know, there's there's definitely a lot of positive education around goalkeeping on social media, which you know kids don't necessarily get at their clubs. Um yeah, I don't know, maybe it's just it's it's difficult because I'm on both sides of the fence, so yeah, I am a creator, but uh I don't it's hard to say, I don't really have a passion for that old stuff that I was probably doing in the first three or four years of goalkeeping. But that was also here's what frustrates me, whether you put this in it or not. If you looked at say my three or four first first three or four years of goalkeeping, and if it was a little bit flashy and it was a little bit unrealistic, that's a 21-year-old who's never played in goal and never been coached. There's lads who do it now, and again, it's you know it's up to you if this goes in it. There's lads who've done it, do it now, who are 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, who have been coached since the age of eight, right up until that point, who create content and they know what's right and wrong, but they still do it. That to me is like I was doing it blind, I've and still am really. Like, I you know, I've never been coached.

Rob:

So why why haven't you been coached? So I just want to pick up on that. So you say you've never been coached or have coaching, yeah. How how it comes, and would you consider it now and start doing it now?

Dec:

Yeah, if I if I was trying to become a professional footballer, um I think I would need some coaching. Um, because the reason I haven't been coached is because I've never been pursuing professional football since I've been a goalkeeper. I've tried to play a decent level and still believe I can play a decent level now, but I haven't been striving to that like I need a club, so and also I what I found. Because I dip in and out of loads of different clubs, whether it's Football League or MLS, non-league, wherever, you know that it's I my experience is when you go into a club, whatever coach you've got in front in front of you, they've got their ideal version of a goalkeeper, what what they like in a goalkeeper. As do I, as do you two probably do. You might like, you know, the old school goalie like a Noya or you know, whatever. So I'm not sure coaching would even be the answer for me. I think it would be like fine-tuning, and it would ultimately depend on where I play. So I wouldn't I wouldn't be crazy on changing everything I do, if that makes sense, because I know that if I walked into Arsenal tomorrow, the goalie might think I'll I can't do anything with him anyway. So, you know, that's that's just my feeling on on being coached. I think it would be a few things that I could definitely improve on for sure and definitely get better. Um, but I wouldn't be trying to change what's got me so far, if that makes sense.

Rob:

Okay. So you said uh about the things that you can improve. What do you think your biggest weaknesses are as a goalkeeper? And your biggest strength. Let's not.

Dec:

Yeah, I'm class, like I'm um biggest weakness. That's a good question. I hate that question because then I'll always pause and and then it sounds like I'm saying I haven't got one. Um biggest weakness. Um actually, I know what the biggest weakness is for sure. Um, and hopefully this don't go too far because the teams we play against this season will start whatever.

Rob:

Me coaching. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So actually, this is this is it though.

Dec:

This is actually a great point. So my biggest weakness would be, and I wouldn't I definitely wouldn't say it's a real weakness. I wouldn't say it's like, God, you're really struggling with it, but if you played in goal, you know, uh, like a uh straight ball over the top where it's between the centre backs, not not the right and left, but just a straight ball over the top, and it feels like it's in no man's land, it's like basically trying to stay on the front foot to actually sweep up. I can't stand doing it, it doesn't suit me. So, like, for example, if you got like a same way like David De Gea would play, he would sooner drop into the goal and and try and make a save rather than come out like a like a newyer and clatter somebody. So if you would say it's a weakness, it's definitely something I've struggled with. Is um, and you know what it's like with managers, everyone wants their keeper to be a sweeper keeper, yeah. Everyone wants a keeper to play at the highest line ever. I'm fine if the ball's with me and at my feet, and I trust what I can do with the ball, but that that straight ball over the top, and hopefully no one sees this with the in the my league. Um, that straight ball over the top, I've um I think a lot of goalie's would feel the same. It's just that sweeping up is foreign to me. I don't maybe it's because I've played centre mid, possibly, and I'm never really running towards a ball that's this way, if that makes sense. But yeah, that's something I've uh from playing games more and more is getting a bit better at it, but it's it's not strength. I'd uh most of the saves when in that scenario for me was I've dropped into the goal, didn't have very many sweeping out situations, 1v1s, really. It was I'd drop into the goal and try and make the save, doesn't always work, but it's hindsight, isn't it?

Rob:

Yeah, I think after listening to this, more teams will do that. Yeah, this is the problem. You'll get you'll get more exposure to it.

Dec:

I'll get better exposure there, and be right. Back to the coaching point, though. That's so like that, and I I actually so I trained with um Portsmouth last season um for the first say four or five weeks with that club, and they basically come back from Croatia and I joined in with the first team. And I spoke to the keeper coach there, Joe Pradomo, and he he's class, top keeper coach, really good guy. And I said to him, I really struggle with this, and and he said the same thing, it's really hard to replicate because you can't play a game in training, really, and you can't just get oh just keep clipping balls over it because it's so false. So it's not something like, for example, if I was like, I'm really bad at 1v1s, yeah, I can work on that, but those balls over the top, it's like well, you only get it a lot of variables, isn't there? Loads of variables, and you just gotta keep playing games, and yeah, yeah, and weather, pitches, yeah. So yeah, that's that's that'd be my weakness, yeah.

Rob:

And strengths, strengths. You can't have one without the other, I've got to say, no, strengths.

Dec:

Um being pretty good shot stopper, um, good at taking crosses. I'd say they're probably the two probably my two strengths, which yeah, I think I'd say so, yeah. I it'd be easy to say distribution. I wouldn't say that. Because like for me, it's like I've played centre mid. If I can't if I can't kick a ball where I want to roughly kick it, I'd be worried. Do you know what I mean? Like, I wouldn't I'd never it would probably be a strength to compare to a lot of goalies, but I've grew up in that position, so I wouldn't be going, oh yeah, I'm I'm really strong at that. I just think I'm just alright at kicking the ball round, really. So yeah, probably shot stopping in and crosses 1v1s could do with some work. Yeah, not the most flexible. I don't know, really.

Kev:

I wanted to rewind a set right back to those balls over the top. So, like, I I really struggle with that as well. Not that anyone's watching me in my league. But when when those balls do come over the top and you're in the games, are you like are you conscious of the fact that that's something that you need to work on? And is there fear there when when you find yourself confronting those situations?

Dec:

Probably a little bit. Um, you wouldn't know it if you if you watched me play, I don't think. But um I'm just always conscious of taking yourself out of the game. Like, I I was actually speaking to Miles about this again in America. We might have been another coach to be fair, but like I would I would much rather drop into the goal and and have a chance than then commit to something that could completely take you out of the game. So you either get sent off, he skips around you and rolls it in, or you know, if you do it well, you get there and you clear it. But for me, I'm almost like uh trying to take the risk out of it. I know that if I drop into the goal, someone else might be able to get back, or but there is definitely that element of I don't want to, I don't really want to say fear, because it's not a fear, I just would rather that didn't, you know, like it's my decision. I don't it would be fear if I was getting told, say, at another club, you've got to just come and get everything or you're gonna you're gonna get axed, you're coming out of it. So like then it would probably be a fear, but my coaches trust me, the club trust me. So, you know, if they would bring it up, honestly, like even at even at half time, like they would say leave him to it, because I've had success from dropping into the goal rather than you know coming out trying to sweep up and stuff. So yeah, like I'm not I honestly I'm not good at it. It's not like I'm not deluded to think I could become really good at it, maybe, but I think very, very unlikely I'm I'm definitely not good at that. So um, yeah, I just think with goalkeeping, it's just whatever you get success from. And I think Rob, we trained with Rob Elliott in in Texas a couple of years ago, and I remember him saying about like technique and XYZ, and and he he was more or less on the same page to say, like, it's just it's a results game, like it's it's what you get success from. So we actually talked about a crossing thing, which is like always fascinated me, to be honest. So, like, if you take cross from from your left side, you come off your left foot and your right knee goes up, and if you get it from the right side, you go off your right foot and your left knee goes up. I could never do it off the right side, but I was determined to sort it out, and I have sorted it out. And I spoke to Rob about it in Texas, and he said, I'm the same. He's played in the Premier League. He's you know, like he's he's been to the absolute highest, and he was like, I've never been able to do it. I trained with him and he's right, you can't do it. And it's like, doesn't matter, like it's just a results game, isn't it? If you take crosses, why are you worried about what leg you go off?

Kev:

You know, like it's if Ain't broke don't fix it.

Dec:

Exactly that, yeah. But I mean, I wanted to sort it because I felt like it was hindering me, so I fixed that and I'm all right at it now. But like, yeah, it's just I think people get too caught up on technique, to be honest.

Rob:

I agree, I agree. I think with a lot of goalkeeping, it's it depends, isn't it? There's no right or wrong, and I still I still see this is mad, I don't want to give too much away. But Premier League goal is they're teaching goalkeepers that I work with different catching techniques and how to catch it. This is the right way to catch it. Is there a right way? And then what they're doing is they're because they're trying to please a goalkeeper coach, they're trying to catch it differently and then overthinking it and dropping it, and then they're getting shouted at for dropping the ball, yeah, but they've never caught it that way. It's what what works for you, right? Yeah, it depends, like Martin says Martin Brennan, who we've all been, you know, we've all been coached by and stuff like keep the ball out the goal, it doesn't matter how you keep it out. The Haya was unconventional, he he saved a lot of balls with his feet. There's no like you keep the ball out the goal, right? But it's now a lot of it is yeah, it's frustrating.

Dec:

I agree, yeah. Like especially for me starting off when I had zero technique, I didn't know what the answer was. I didn't really know what I was going to do because I'd never played or anyone ever showed me and I have become successful doing it on the pitch and obviously socially. Um I just think there's a few things that I'd yeah, you know, you need to be able to do, but if you can do them all and you do them a little bit unorthodox, don't worry about it. Like I don't like you said, the problem is is when you start trying to trying to please a coach because you might be chasing a contract, it's difficult to not do that because you know you're trying to have a career in football, but yeah, I just think the the narrative's gone too much towards yeah, but he doesn't do this and he doesn't do that, and it's there's no there's no textbook. There is no you should do this, so you should do that. It's just an opinion. Kind of like how I said about the coaches. If if you put me in front of eight coaches, seven might hate me, and one might think, no, I love the way he keeps, but I've just done what's worked for me and what I've got success from. It's even like that, like I'm saying about the crosses thing. Like, I wasn't getting success from taking crosses on this side of the pitch because I was trying to go off my left, and if it was a deep cross, I'd be falling over, really, if it was over my head. So you just do what what you get results from. If you take crosses well and you go off two feet, like everyone says you can't go off two feet, and I agree, you probably want to avoid it, you're not gonna get quite as high. But if you take every cross, it was why's why's everyone moaning? Like, what is there to worry about if you become successful? It doesn't matter.

Kev:

I think I think there's a lot of perfectionism in goalkeeping. Like I've worked with a couple of championship and Premier League goalkeepers who, when they're going through their clips with their coaches, the coach will be picking out technical aspects when they're playing at the top level, they're in the elite 0.012%. So if they're making saves, even though it's not perfect, is that not still effective goalkeeping? It's you see it with younger goalkeepers now as well. They've built this image in their head that when they come for crosses or when they're making saves, it has to be done with perfect technique, it has to be a catch. Yeah but uh the top goalies they don't always catch a clean cross, they're just coming out and getting getting something on it.

Dec:

Well, yeah, like Raya Raya last season took a cross with one hand, he's pulled it in for that. Yeah, unbelievable. But like again, like I bet there was thousands of people going, oh yeah, but his knee weren't up on the keyboard, keyboard. I even had one, I just put up a video in the within the highlights of me taking a cross, and someone from America just said, Um, this is this is all wrong. Your knee's not up, you've not took short steps to get there. Like, you shouldn't be basically you shouldn't be showing this, but like it's all well and good if you're in training and everything's so controlled, and you know, you throw a ball up, and yeah, I can get my knee up now because I've you've tossed it up. Did you catch the cross? This is my point. That was the whole point. Like, if you when you get in a game, and I think even me playing again this season, because I hadn't played for four years or so. Once you get in a game, I'd say 90% of it goes out the window anyway. Like, I made some disgusting saves this season, not technically sound, whatever you want to call it, but you know, I was successful. Did you save it? Yeah, exactly. Like that was that was the whole the whole point, and you know, that's what I think. I even think about the like I said, about you don't make I didn't make a single top corner save. I probably had three or four saves that felt like training saves where someone might cut in, flash it across goal, and you get a negative step and push and help it round the post. Three or four saves, the rest are like banged at you from ten yards and you just chuck something on it. Like it's techni honestly, I'd go around in circles about technique, it's just it doesn't matter. Like it's it's it's a small part of it to me. And when you get to a good level, if you're a good goalie as well, everyone's technically pretty good, isn't they? Every good catchers of the ball can dive, can but can it translate into a game? And I think that's probably what's probably been my biggest positive since playing in goal is that I've translated into a game well. So that was that was good for me.

Rob:

Yeah, no, 100% agree. I think the pressure to be perfect and make everything technically perfect is is putting fear into goalkeepers. I mean, I think the fear like we see it, don't we? Yeah the the fear in goalkeepers and the fear to be perfect. And someone said something to me that was really good, I've really taken on board, which is you hit perfectionism for a moment in time. Not perfect forever, it's a moment in time. It's just one moment in time, like when you get that's at one.

Dec:

Yeah, one, yeah, that's a perfectionist.

Rob:

You don't you're not perfect for the rest of it, no, but you could have done something but you never know, you could have been in the wrong that's got you to make the save. There's no right, there's a lot of not right or wrongs, and uh some of the points you're saying is completely right. Did you catch the cross? Yes, did you save it? Yes, that's that's all that matters. Like you was in you're employed a lot of times you're to keep the ball out of the goal. That's what yeah, but you say old school goalkeepers annoy you, it's for me, it's still a new goal. New school goalkeeper. Yeah, no, I get you, yeah. Yeah, we won't mention your age. I'm like, oh he's just so new school with the distribution and stuff, but you see all that, and you're like, oh, I need to be this is the way I need to be, but you find your own path and you find your own way.

Dec:

It it really frustrates me because like I I always think I think about this regularly because I'm always going in goal, and like I make quite a lot of foot, I'll use my feet a lot if I'm saving the ball. I'm not really one because I'm quite tall to chop down there if it's tight to me. And I remember like I was training with uh a League One club uh for a few weeks or so, and I'd have like a I'd make a lot of saves with my feet, and then one would go in, and if I've gone with my foot and it's ended up in the goal, and the coach would say, just go with your hands, and it would be I could tell he was frustrated, or even if I made the save with my foot, I could tell he was frustrated that I wasn't going with my hands, and then I just remember always thinking, I still think about this whenever I'm in goal. If I go with my hands, right, we'll we'll one-nil down 100%. I I know I won't save it, like you know in yourself what you can and can't do, and like there'd be shots that I would kick away, and it won't look amazing, it won't be technically textbook, but I'd always think, okay, well, I'll tell you what, I'll go with my hands and we'll be one down, two down, three down, because it just doesn't suit me. And it's the same with De Gea. If you look at some of the foot saves he's made, I would bet money that he would also agree if I went with my hand, it'd probably be a different story. He wouldn't be talking about how good that save was, it would be you know, one-nil or oh, the one that comes to mind is that one in the Champions League against Real Madrid.

Kev:

Like they battered him in the in the yeah, in the um the box. The pundits, yeah, I know. They were battering him, and then Schmeichel came on. I think he said, you know what, goalkeeping doesn't have to be pretty, it's it's effective. Yeah, and I think maybe we're we're in that era now of football where people are more concerned about how things look rather than the actual outcome that you achieve of something because of social media and TV and obviously lack of knowledge as well, pundits as well.

Dec:

Yeah, I I think that's a I remember Joe Hart at one point going in and doing a bit of punditry. I think he is more now as well, now that he's retired. But he was actually commenting on De Gea also, and it was a foot save, and and you could see that the other pundits and presenters wanted to steer him towards talking negatively about what he's done, and he basically said he's the best in the world at making saves of his feet. I'm not just because I'm a goalkeeper, gonna sit here and say that he should do anything differently. Plus, you know what it's like if you've played in goal, like how how different can like your reality be to when you watch something back? Do you know what I mean? So, like I've done it even this season where I've made a save and I thought, oh, that felt brilliant. That must have looked ledge. And I've and I've I remember one, I thought, oh, he's he's it that on the volley, and he's actually took a touch and half-volleyed it. But I thought he's it this full first time, and then when you're in there, it's like a it's just chaos, isn't it? Like when you're actually playing and goal in a game, you can't control anything, really, you're just reacting to what they do. Um, so I always think that like that reality of when you're in there is so different to just like like a pundit, if you just sit and watch it, it's so easy to dissect it. But when you're in there, it's like so you're like looking all over the place. You don't know, like it's not like you're you're out of your depth, but it it's not it's not a controlled environment, is it? You know, it's it's just it's horrendous, really.

Kev:

Well, you're you're in that zone as a goalkeeper, aren't you? Like a lot of people that haven't played the position don't realise this, but when you look at it on TV, it looks a certain way, and you'll always have someone going, ah, could have done that, yeah, could have done better, they should have saved that. But in reality, you can't see the ball coming through bodies, maybe it's deviates in the air. Like unless you've played that position, I don't think you can truly ever appreciate just how challenging it is.

Dec:

Yeah, like the one I always see is like if if a keeper stood, if if he's not in line with the ball, and then you look at he's basically looking round the defender, so he took a different position. He took a took an unnatural position, and then the pundit will say, Why is he stood there? We've got if he stands in his position, he should be stood. He can't see the ball, he's he's bang in line with the defender, but you just get like pundits, just oh god, like like Keane, for example, just just desperate to bat a goalkeepers like you should have they should have more goalies in in to comment on the goalkeeping, really, because otherwise it's just stupid, isn't it? It is just don't you think it's just stupid, like trying to have an outfielder tell you it's like if it like if a player says to me, Oh, you should save that, I think Jesus, like you I don't try and yeah, go and go and go, honestly. Like you said that earlier, didn't I? Yeah, no, but honestly, that's just it's just mental. Frustrates me to be honest, but yeah. Well, that's because I know how hard it is. It's the hardest. I've played centre mid at an all right level. I know it's the hardest position by a mile, and I think people now are starting to agree with playing in goal is well.

Rob:

If you make a mistake in midfield, you've got the defense, and then they're gonna be there, right? Yeah, you it is yeah, there's a lot more give in in the goalkeeping.

Dec:

Way more, yeah.

Rob:

Yeah, world position, you make a mistake, a lot of time it'll end up in a goal, and and everything's designed around scoring now.

Dec:

The balls are getting harder to catch, the balls are getting wobblier. Sounds like a woe-me thing, doesn't it? But it's but it but it is so they want the balls to move more, it's just they just want more goals, so yeah, it's difficult.

Kev:

What what is it about the positioning?

Dec:

Because you've mentioned a lot of negative stuff, yeah, negative stuff, yeah.

Kev:

But also adversity. I think a lot of goalkeepers go through significant adversity in their careers, and you you learn to to ride that line between success and failure so often. So, read like circling back to that initial question that Rob asked, what is it about goalkeeping as a whole that makes you enjoy it? Is it is it that that line that you ride? Is it the risk reward? What is it for you that draws you to the position? What is it that makes you come back every week and put yourself through 90 minutes of of what you've described as carnage?

Dec:

Yeah, no, because it is really. Um I don't know, probably those big moments that you you do see the results of the work you've done, if that makes sense. I feel like goalkeeping is so much like maintenance and fine-tuning, and when it all comes together kind of like you were saying, that one moment of that feels like perfection, I think that's really what you strive for. And as you know, I've had games this season where I think I can't keep that, I don't want to play football again. And then I've also had games where I think, oh god, I'd do this every day, like this is the best thing in the world. So I think you're constantly chasing that that high of but yeah, just being successful, really. I think and and you've improved to that point, I suppose.

Rob:

Um what is success to you? What does success mean in the goalkeeping world? Is it improvement? Is it getting higher higher levels? Is it more view, like more views, more followers?

Dec:

I think I'm at success. I'm at a like a midlife crisis sort of stage. Are you? No, not really. No, I'm going through that at the moment, no. 19 No, I think I'm at a different stage to where most goalkeepers and creators are collectively, really. Like as a creator, I'm I'm not fussed. I mean, I've got a job to do, of course, but I'm not chasing followers. Doesn't matter to me. Like, I'm not chasing views, really. I I want to be content with what I post and what I put out, and and yeah, if I like what I'm put out, then I'm doing I'm successful in my own head, if that makes sense. Um level-wise, football, I don't know, maybe if it went back a couple of years, I probably would have felt differently. But for me, right now, success to me is is enjoying football and actually being happy with where I'm playing. So like even the season just gone, I've I've had offers to play higher. Um just wasn't right for me, so I've stayed at the same club and it's alright, it's not a bad level. But yeah, I don't know whether I don't know, I don't it's weird because I'm involved with football, I'm passionate about football and goalkeeping, but I don't have any desire at all to be a professional footballer. And I I mean that might be because I've I've got a very nice gig and a nice way of life, but I don't it doesn't it just doesn't interest me. It like the idea of being a full-time footballer trying to chase contracts, it's nothing wrong with it, like you know, for the lads who are doing it and and are successful and not so successful is no problem. But for me personally, chasing a contract and having somebody tell you what to do every single day doesn't really interest me, so yeah. No, I don't I don't think playing higher would be a version of success for me, maybe a little bit, but I think I could do that, so that's not the answer either. I'll get there in a minute when I find find out.

Rob:

I think you've I think you've answered it really. I think success is enjoying what you do, yeah, and it in having enjoyment and fun. Yeah, like you enjoy making the content, you enjoy playing the football. Like for me, that is fulfillment. Well, it sounds like fulfilled, aren't you?

Dec:

Yeah, and I it's like if I for example, if I didn't get any better at goalkeeping ever again, I'd still be happy with what I've done. So, like, and if I'd ever played a higher level, I'd still be happy, and if I never got a follower ever again, that's fine. Like, it doesn't, you know, I just want to live in all you after this, don't we?

Rob:

Oh chess, yeah.

Dec:

So, yeah, like I don't I don't know really, it's just probably the age I'm at, and you start to look at everything a bit differently. I'm 28 now, and a younger deck would have probably been like, Oh, I've got a I've you know, I've got to go and play in the National League or League Two or whatever, and I need to hit a million followers, and I honestly didn't care less. And that's probably not the right thing to say with the bosses beyond me. But like it it doesn't bother me though. Like, I'm I'm more I guess what I'm more interested in quality over quantity.

Rob:

No, I like that. I think with success, well not success, with enjoyment, success comes like that comes anyway. We enjoy what you do. Like I was just listening to a podcast in my five-hour drive. Yeah, five hours, yeah, yeah, yeah. Getting here while I was stuck in traffic, like it was like it's hard to beat someone having fun. That was the podcast, it was a sports psychology podcast. It's like it's really hard to beat someone enjoying themselves and having fun. You see the person who's not having fun, like for example, you could be grinding and being like, Oh, I don't enjoy it, I've got to do this. And is that success? Probably not. So, like if we we want to do this because we enjoy what we do, we enjoy speaking to people, getting inside people's heads, and just having conversations and being around good people, we enjoy that, and as long as we enjoy that, like does the metrics matter so much? Exactly. Like, what is is is the the metric of uh how many views it has, how many follows it has. Is that success, or is it if we hated it, doesn't really make any difference, does it? In my opinion.

Dec:

No, I know I I completely agree. Uh it's different for everybody as well. Like that might be sounds like a similar thing, our version of success, but yeah, somebody else's version of success might be well, I've got to go and play in the football league, and and then until they do that, then then they become fulfilled.

Rob:

But they don't, they don't, like, yeah, it's because it's the next one. You never like the whole point is the hedonic treadmill, right?

Dec:

It's what's next, yeah, yeah. I think, yeah, I get that as well. But again, I think like not that I'm super old, but I think I've definitely got to that point in my life where it's just tonight. Stop chasing, like it's not like you're not got any drive or ambition. I've still got loads of things I want to do, but it's just like it is that fulfillment of oh, everything's it's more internal, yeah. It's way more internal rather than like a you know, even like some friends will say to me, Oh, do you you know, you get to a million followers, and I it it almost annoys me that like and the same with maybe other creators and and people who are coming up to do what I'm doing or done, it almost it almost winds me up that it's not for me to say, but it's like that people have that version of success. Like, for me it's superficial. Do you know what I mean? It's like it's it's uh for example, why does it matter if you've got a million followers or none? Like what it's it's ego driven.

Kev:

We can have this conversation, don't we? Do you know what I mean?

Dec:

It's like it's really like somebody another creator said it to me, and he'll probably know I'm talking about him anyway, it's fine. But um he he basically said, um, you know, will you be will you be like buzzing if you reach like a million followers and you whatever doing XYZ? And I was like, no, like as long as I keep doing alright, couldn't care less what I do. Like I I really couldn't, as long as I'm fulfilled and I'm happy with what I'm doing. Why does it matter if I've got a hundred K, 600K, 10 followers or a million? It just doesn't it's just a number. It's literally just a number at the end of the day. You know, if I can continue my life and my lifestyle and my way of life, then well, the numbers don't really mean anything, you know. Like you said, they're just they're just data.

Kev:

Would you would you still be fulfilled though, if you never had any of this? Like go back to 21-year-old deck who's just started playing in goal. Let's just say you never put the camera in the goal and you never started filming content. Would you still feel the same way about the last seven years as you do sat here right now?

Dec:

I think I would have had such a different path. I think I think uh I think I would have my assumption would be I would have continued to play a a better level of football or may have broken to play professional football. Um probably not, because I don't I think the fact that I don't have desire to be a professional footballer now probably tells me that it would have always burnt out at one point, um, which again I think roots from that expectation and all that grinding and stuff. So um yeah, I I can't imagine I would have been quite as fulfilled as I feel now. Um not that everything's perfect, but you know, it's it's pretty good. So probably not, but then I don't know, I might have been I might have been better off, you know. Like who knows? I might have I might have uh progressed and and played I don't know, League One championship football, maybe if I was super lucky and that'd have been alright too, but I don't I don't know, I don't dwell on it too much. It's only when I come on a podcast as I'll really think about that. But um yeah, I I couldn't imagine it would have turned out as nice as my life has turned out now. Yeah, not in a you know, I don't I'm not a bloody multi-millionaire living in Hollywood, but like you know, it's got nice lives. Yeah, exactly.

Rob:

Same as us, we enjoy value, we value spending time together, we enjoy making content like this, we enjoy educating people, so you're doing the things that you value, which then fulfills you. So that's the thing, and you're going away, and yeah, we love going away.

Dec:

And oh, yeah, like that's what I think we always say. Like, the the best times is if it's like me and Miles talk about it a lot, but it's just traveling, really, and you know, we do some. Some coaching and you know, we enjoy our time when we're away. And even like this morning we trained with Scott, Scott Loach, and I was great morning. Like I I just you know, it's just a really nice pace and um yeah, like it's all in what you do, isn't it? And the people you're with. If I was turning up to a a job I didn't like and I didn't like the people, it'd be you know, you're never gonna be too happy, are you? So yeah, overall pretty good, yeah.

Rob:

And last few points, like for younger goalkeepers, for younger goalkeepers coming up, what advice would you give them for being a goalkeeper?

Dec:

Um try not to lose that enjoyment for it, and um yeah, maybe it's it's hard to say don't have too much expectation because everyone's got ambitions, but I don't know. I like you said earlier, it's hard to beat somebody who's having fun, so just try to try to always keep that like reason why you started it, and if you can do that, you'll probably end up alright. But yeah, again, I think the biggest killer is that expectation, whether that comes from yourself or your family. I think the family's a big one, and your your parents and stuff, and I see it as people. Oh god, it's horrible. Like I see it all the time with like I say busy, like busy mum and dads who want to be speaking to coaches and stuff, and like for me, my dad never spoke to coaches or anything like that, just speak to me, and probably wish he did the opposite at this point, but like um, or at the time, um I see like I just see young outfielders and goalies or whatever, and the parents are just killing them, they're like setting them up to fail, but like because they're they're trying to be trying to be palli with the coaches, and you know, this is off topic anyway, but like you know what I mean? It's that expectation, and they're trying to almost hurry their career along, and they think being friendly with the coaches will help. And for me, I I'm my assumption is it's probably doing the opposite in in my opinion. But anyway, that's not my advice to kids, that's to the parents. Um but yeah, no, I see it all the time, and I'm sure you guys probably do as well.

Kev:

So it's yes, a lot of the time the kids the kids lose their love for the game because of the pushy parents, right? So there's so much expectation, so much pressure to go and perform and not make mistakes that when they're on that pitch, they're in threat state and they're just absolutely terrified of making mistakes and they eventually lose their love for the game.

Dec:

Yeah, yeah. No, I think that again, like on that point, I think another piece of advice or words of wisdom, if you want to say that, it would be to know that there is more to life anyway, than than being a professional footballer. It's great if it all works out, doesn't work out for a lot of people, but there's loads of other things like you know, you'd find love for. And I always say if I start again, if I could start again, I'd try and be a golfer. And I really mean that. Like, I'd love to be a golfer. So, like, for me, I've found as much love for golf as I ever have playing football. So, you know, I wouldn't get too going down that rabbit hole of I must be a pro footballer, and you see it with parents and you see it with kids, and it's probably the downfall.

Kev:

That's the retirement strategy, isn't it? When he stops making football content of your golf content, I'd love to, honestly.

Rob:

Reach out on social media, calaway, new parents, new need some new new clubs.

Dec:

Honestly, I'd love to do that.

Rob:

I do, I do. If anyone's listening, I do. I ain't got the reach that he's got, but I need some new clubs. I'm getting 50 quid.

Dec:

What did you what did you play off? Do you have handicaps? What officially or unofficially? Oh, whatever. I've been I've got unofficial handicaps.

Kev:

I'm I'm off like six seven. It's good, it's really good. Right. What are you off?

Dec:

Can't be that bad, can it?

Rob:

You're not bad, you're good. It depends, but I I don't get to play anymore. I've moved to Liverpool when I was down south.

Dec:

You've got great courses in Liverpool.

Rob:

Yeah, but I've got no one to play with. I'm still trying to convince him to move to Liverpool. Oh, really? But yeah, it's lovely up there. But now, listen, someone who who I'm good friends with, who's at one glove, has just gone to Man City.

Dec:

Oh, yeah, man. I wonder who that is.

Rob:

I might have a friend who I can now play golf with, which is awesome. So hopefully I'd say uh 18-ish. It's alright, that's good.

Kev:

But the same thing isn't that's such a bandit handicap, by the way. It's much lower than that. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. It depends.

Rob:

It depends. I get play, I get play once a year. It's it is so hard. It's the hardest game in the world, and you think that the ball never moves. It looks everybody knows it, it seems it's so easy. Must swim club, and then but it's hard.

Dec:

I always say this about golf. I actually had a huge argument with somebody in America about it uh a couple years ago, and it's like I say, ah, it's the hardest in the world, or whatever the you know, become successful, be an actual pro and you know, have a career in golf. And they say no, but then my point would be not from anyone I know, but you can be a pro footballer and you might slip through the net, you might just scrape your way in and earn a career, and and you may not be a wonderful footballer. I think that's just a reality. I'm sure people are not deluded to think that's not the case. You can't slip through the net with golf because you've got to earn your card, you have to win a certain amount of events and do a certain amount of things to have a career in golf. So I I I've always said it's harder than football, but people disagree with me massively.

Rob:

I agree.

Dec:

Yeah.

Kev:

I think that's why I think that's why a lot of goalies go for golf though. Yeah, because it's like it's an individual sport.

Dec:

Oh, yeah. There's loads of pressure. I love that, yeah. I'd love the the idea of an individual sport. Yeah, I love the idea of that.

Rob:

Ego, here's one for you. I play this is this is football point. I know it's golf, but it's football point. When I play with uh footballers, right, I go sometimes we go and play golf because I like to see how they react when they hit Shank one into the tree. So it'd be like they're handicap 18 and they go around the first holes par five, right? And they get it in six, and then the next hole's par four and they get it in five, and they're fuming. And I'm like, hold on a minute. Did you expect you to expect to go round in par? You're not a scratch goal, you're not a scratch golfer. Like, yeah, actually, you're 18 handicap, you've you've got to, yeah. But that's the thing, they they're like if I'm like if you change your expectations to go, okay, it's a par four, but for me it's a par five. If you then make a mistake, then you're like, oh, I've got another shot. It just changes the way you see things, and it and I think golf is a really good way of teaching people different aspects of like even goalkeeping. Yeah, there's different ways and oh yeah, I agree.

Dec:

I think it's massive, yeah. Me and my mate have that exact conversation every time we finish around a golf. Like if let's say we finish six over, and then I say, Oh, it's alright. And I won't, you can tell I'm not really buzzing. That's I mean, that's good golf, really. Yeah, no, yeah. But then but then I'll all but then we always finish and say, Yeah, but you know, we're not we're not on tour. So what'd you you know, like if you were on tour, then you'd be like, Yeah, but you should be then you should be frustrated, but no, it's we're the same, really.

Rob:

If I was if that was six six over, I'd be swimming. Oh, I'll be happy with that now. Yeah, I'd be I don't know what I'd be doing.

Dec:

I'll take six over to be fair. Wait, I'm playing at the moment, it's been shambles. I'll take six over. Yeah, I think you should play up there. There's some if you've ever if you've not ever seen unbelievable courses in your way.

Kev:

Maybe we do a podcast on the golf course. I think that'd be unbelievable.

Dec:

The lads mentioned that before. They they said about it before, but we've ended up in here, so what a great setting, eh? Yeah, it's beautiful, isn't it? Got to start somewhere, right? Gotta start somewhere. Yeah, it's amazing.

Rob:

So, uh, mate, thank you so much for coming in. I think we've gone a little bit deep, gone on to different conversations. Oh, it's good, yeah. Probably people, it's really good to see a different side to you.

Dec:

Yeah, I suppose so, yeah.

Rob:

Because everyone's got their perceptions, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, massively. It's always good to see the not that bad. Oh, you're not at all, mate. No, you're good, you're good. Anything to start, mate?

Kev:

No, it was it was just nice to hear you like talk more open, like openly. Like, obviously, everyone sees all the stuff on social media, and they probably don't get to see you know you as a person speaking so openly about the way you see the world of goalkeeping, given the influence that you got. So, yeah, I I I proper enjoyed that. That was wicked.

Dec:

Yeah, it was good.

Rob:

Me too.

Dec:

Thanks for yeah, no, I did, yeah. That was that was enjoyable, yeah. Cheers, mate, appreciate that. No worries, yeah. We'll do it again.

Rob:

Thank you very much, and we'll see you on the next episode.